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    Max ReadHamilton Nolan
    1/20/14 12:39pm

    One of the problems here is that police and prosecutors in New York state are extremely reluctant—for reasons both cultural and legal—to arrest and prosecute for vehicular homicides. We essentially live in a "Stand Your Ground" state for cars.

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      Fartsmello AnthonyMax Read
      1/20/14 12:49pm

      George Zimmerman and his Expedition are looking for apartments/parking as we speak.

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      JohnMcClanesSmirkMax Read
      1/20/14 1:08pm

      Why is combating this problem mutually exclusive to enforcing jaywalking laws? There seems to be a bit of a false dichotomy at work here.

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    HubcapJennyHamilton Nolan
    1/20/14 1:01pm

    Thank you so much for this. Car drivers should bear the burden of most or all traffic laws, because you have to be licensed to drive a car, you don't have to be licensed to walk. In order to get that license, you have to pass a series of tests to prove that you understand and adhere to those laws, whereas anyone, young or old, informed or unaware, fast or slow, can be walking near a street at any time.

    You can't expect all pedestrians to know all traffic laws.

    As they say in no uncertain terms in Driver's Ed, driving a car is a privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege that can be revoked at nearly any time. We have a much stronger claim to the right to walk in safety in public spaces, but that right is being curtailed all over the place.

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      Official Witch of Los AngelesHubcapJenny
      1/20/14 1:14pm

      You're assuming that every time a pedestrian jaywalks or is hit by a car, it's because the driver is an asshole completely unaware of his or her surroundings. That's a dangerous position to have. It can, in some circumstances, be entirely the fault of the pedestrian. I dunno how it is in NYC because I've only visited, but allow me to offer the LA perspective. There are numerous instances of: Pedestrians darting across busy, highway-like roads or the HIGHWAY itself where cars can't anticipate pedestrians because they're not allowed to be there in the first place; pedestrians crossing busy roads in unlighted stretches wearing dark colors; pedestrians darting out from parked cars when a line of cars is moving at a green light. All these actions and more put the pedestrian at fault and cause extra problems for drivers on the roads which, in most parts of LA, are made for drivers. Pedestrians have crosswalks and sidewalks to safely navigate this city.

      In NYC, perhaps jaywalking can "work" — although nine deaths this mouth demonstrate otherwise — but in a city like LA it's laughable to suggest that the drivers are at fault in every single incident. I'm not advocating for car culture, and I wish LA was more walkable (we are getting there) but to suggest pedestrians are exempt from following basic traffic rules — and suggesting that some people can't figure out you don't dart across the highway is a valid excuse — is pretty asinine. I, as a driver, am responsible for watching the road; sometimes, there are conditions, pedestrians included, that a driver cannot control or adequately respond to.

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      msloulouOfficial Witch of Los Angeles
      1/20/14 1:21pm

      New York City an Los Angeles are incomparable in terms or pedestrian and car cultures. Apples and oranges. And of those nine deaths, I believe only one of them occurred when the victim was jaywalking.

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    dj-dericHamilton Nolan
    1/20/14 12:42pm

    If the jaywalker is, by definition, breaking the law and is hit by a car, how is it we blame the driver if they weren't being malicious or reckless?

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      Max Readdj-deric
      1/20/14 12:44pm

      What if... it is the law... that is wrong?

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      dj-dericMax Read
      1/20/14 12:50pm

      The roads are for pedestrians, cyclists, motorists, etc. If a crowded city like New York allows its pedestrians to continually cross the street, traffic comes to a standstill. There must be ebb and flow of all people. As you say, unless you ban vehicles in the city, there has to be some system in place for its people to continue to move. There are other, expensive, solutions like elevated or subterranean crossings, or pedestrian only streets. For the most part not practical.

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    TRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)Hamilton Nolan
    1/20/14 12:49pm

    I live in Kansas. Farmer's fields are literally a mile from my apartment. My car is crucial to my commute. Cars are not crucial for anyone commuting to the heart of NYC. This should be a no-brainer.

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      msloulouHamilton Nolan
      1/20/14 12:44pm

      As a New Yorker, I feel safer crossing mid-block most of the time. I can't even count how many times I've nearly been hit by a car making a turn while I'm in the crosswalk. If I'm crossing a single lane, one way street mid-block, I can see what's coming at me and gauge if it's safe to cross. In a crosswalk, you have to be aware of all traffic and have eyes behind your head. A walk signal does not necessarily mean it's safe to cross. The solution is not targeting pedestrians, it's going after dangerous operators of two ton bullets with wheels by enforcing traffic laws.

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        baddoggyHamilton Nolan
        1/20/14 12:44pm

        "It's like blaming the deer for getting in the way of the hunter's bullet."

        No, no it is not the same. Like, at all. People driving aren't actively seeking to hit pedestrians like hunters are looking for deers to shoot.

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          JohnMcClanesSmirkbaddoggy
          1/20/14 12:52pm

          Nor are pedestrians free to frolic around NYC like fucking Bambi. They're members of a society, a society that has clear-as-day signs and mores about how to properly navigate a complex urban environment. One of which, incidentally, includes not slack-jawed and haphazardly walking in front of on-coming traffic. This has to be one of the laziest and most incoherent similes I've ever had this misfortune of reading.

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          baddoggyJohnMcClanesSmirk
          1/20/14 1:10pm

          Agreed

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        DennyCraneHamilton Nolan
        1/20/14 1:40pm

        In the NYT article you cite, one of the weekend's fatalities came when someone was struck and killed by an ambulance - something that won't disappear from our roads no matter how pedestrian-centric you make NY. Another victim was hit by an MTA bus and another by a taxi - two modes of transit designed in and of themselves to get cars off our streets. In the case that resulted in charges against the driver, the accident occurred in a part of Queens that doesn't have trains.

        Not to mention the fact that, unless heavy lumber is going to be delivered to construction sites via drone, commercial traffic will still be necessary, especially in Manhattan where skyscrapers are being worked on everyday.

        We can talk about making a pedestrian-centric city all we want, and that is a noble goal. Roads and intersections can, and should, be made safer (and the Bloomberg administration was pretty good at "normalizing" dangerous intersections). Transit options can be improved so fewer cars clog the roads. But giving pedestrians a free pass to do whatever they want is, in theory and in practice, simply not going to work.

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          thewholetownscuteHamilton Nolan
          1/20/14 2:15pm

          This city is unbelievably geared towards pedestrians. But having said that, pedestrians are shockingly arrogant and irresponsible because of it. Crossing almost any street in NYC in the middle of the block is illegal precisely because it's unsafe to you and the people in the cars. Add smartphones to the mix and it's a disaster.

          I'm a cyclist and I ride pretty responsibly and conscientiously and taxis are my first nemesis, but pedestrians are a close second due to this attitude of entitlement in this city—I am a pedestrian, therefore all of you will stop for me whenever I want. Guess what? It's not always possible at the last second and when it isn't and the pedestrian gets hurt, it's THEIR fault. The drivers in these instances shouldn't be ticketed.

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            All Hail The Big Catthewholetownscute
            1/20/14 3:20pm

            Considering I see cyclists blatantly ignore the rules of the road such as riding on sidewalks and through red lights on a daily basis, those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw around the arrogant and entitlement stones.

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            thewholetownscuteAll Hail The Big Cat
            1/20/14 3:30pm

            There are definitely asshole riders out there, but I don't live in a glass house. I don't ride on the sidewalks (perhaps you didn't fully read my post), but I do go through reds (like pedestrians do) when there are no cars or pedestrians and I'm definitely not tapping away on my phone while doing so. I don't have a problem with someone jaywalking...when there are no cars or bikes. If you get hit while jaywalking, um, chances are you didn't look or you were on your phone or listening to your headphones.

            How often do you ride a bike?

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          Taint NuttinHamilton Nolan
          1/20/14 1:06pm

          This is an issue in SF, but my understanding is that they at least talk about trying to reduce the amount of cars on the road. People on bikes were getting mowed down on Masonic left and right so I'm pretty sure they're actually taking out a lane or two to make drivers slow down. Stretches of Market have been made car-free at certain hours.

          I used to walk through three of the ten most dangerous intersections in town to and from work. Two of them were funky irregular intersections on mid-Market where it didn't take much imagination to see potential issues. And the third was the yield sign off I believe the Duboce offramp that drops you onto Mission. That thing is a fucking deathtrap. You couldn't even respect the panhandlers because if they were really bout it bout it they would have just been strolling through that crosswalk until they hit the jackpot.

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            SauceboyHamilton Nolan
            1/20/14 12:58pm

            I don't have a problem with ticketing jaywalkers.

            I do have a problem with ticketing jaywalkers in the absence of similar auto traffic enforcement; i.e., ticketing jaywalkers because its easier than setting up a speed trap and tracking down speeders. Otherwise, it just looks like you're going after low-hanging fruit and its a cosmetic fix.

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