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    RussianistHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:28pm

    "It is perfectly appropriate to mock and denounce someone for paying $357 for an Uber ride of less than an hour."

    It's also perfectly appropriate to mock and denounce a company that incorporates price-gouging (and sudden 7x price hikes in crisis situations is almost a textbook example of the term) directly into its code and then defends the practise with the usual Libertarian techno-utopian cant about the "free" market and technology solving everything.


    The company deserves that mockery and denunciation not as a basis for government regulation (which makes no sense with pricing for a service like this) or for a boycott (the upper-middle-class folks who might use it aren't a big enough demographic) but because it's really not a business practise that should be encouraged or promoted. That they're open about it and even proud of it makes only tells me that the executives are short-sighted greedheads with disdain for their customers.

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      Hamilton NolanRussianist
      1/08/14 1:35pm

      The key to "price gouging" as an objectionable practice is that the price gouger in question is taking advantage of the public in a desperate time, i.e., the store selling generators after a hurricane that triples its prices.

      Uber is just an expensive way to get around. The NYC subway runs 24 hours a day.

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      RussianistHamilton Nolan
      1/08/14 1:52pm

      That's exactly what was happening: taking advantage of a regular customer due to a crisis situation by charging 7x the normal price.Those customers don't consider it expensive on a normal basis and would probably accept 2x or 3x surge pricing as fair and reasonable.

      Price-gouging can be applied to luxury goods, too, and a luxury goods consumer condemning the practise (and some did in Uber's case) is just as useful in discouraging it as are consumers complaining about crisis gouging on generators, food and other necessities. Whether the luxury goods consumer is being a fool for using the service in normal conditions is a separate issue — luxury is in the eye of the beholder, and for a good many people a generator might be considered a luxury.

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    keeplosingburnersHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:07pm

    Isn't the bigger issue here that Uber's stated goal is to eliminate taxi cabs entirely? And if they somehow managed to succeed, wouldn't anyone who doesn't own a smartphone be a little bit screwed? And wouldn't anyone who relies on the predictability of cab fare, and may not have the money to splurge during busy periods, be equally screwed? I assume there would be more drivers and the surges may be less costly, but only if Uber doesn't keep surging just because it can.

    My issue isn't with what Uber is now, it's with what Uber is trying to become. But yeah, agreeing to pay $357 and then bitching about it after is kind of stupid.

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      iLoveEddieJoneskeeplosingburners
      1/08/14 1:12pm

      This. In most of their markets, UberX is priced below taxi cabs, specifically with the intent of driving taxis out of business. Once Uber controls the market, they will be able to do whatever they want, and we'll all be screwed. That's why the taxi industry is regulated in the first place.

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      BearDownCBearskeeplosingburners
      1/08/14 1:13pm

      I think there will always be a market niche for retail cabs who scoop hailers off the street. Uber doesn't do that.

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    grancy2Hamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:13pm

    Any New Yorker who uses Uber is an idiot. Don't explain to me why it makes sense for you to use Uber. It does not. You are an idiot. Other cities may need it, so I won't judge them. New York does not. I used it once before realizing it was way more expensive than a car service with no added benefit other than knowing my driver's name (which I could ask in any other car if I cared about it).

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      Obvious Burner account, but stillgrancy2
      1/08/14 1:32pm

      It's near-instant availability + curbside pickup. A lot of car services require advance scheduling. I've never paid for an Uber car myself, but I know someone who's a big fan & have ridden with him, and have to say that during that 4-6pm zone of misery when you just can't find a cab, it's kind of nice. (on the other hand, 4-6pm is a TERRIBLE time to be in traffic, so you're generally better off taking the subway anyway; you'll get where you're going faster. Unless you're going to an area that doesn't have a subway stop nearby. Or you're carrying something heavy. So how about this: Uber is a great service between 4-6pm if you need to carry a big box to York Ave.)

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      grancy2Obvious Burner account, but still
      1/08/14 1:43pm

      I get where you're coming from, but there are plenty (hundreds?) of car services that offer near-instant availability and curbside pickup. I know of three that are right in my area, and when I call it's always "5 minutes" and the car is there. I think our society is becoming too dependent on apps without the knowledge that there are already systems in place that will do the same thing, but cheaper. I think Uber just has great marketing/word-of-mouth, and young people (I'm in my 20s)/new New Yorkers don't know what a car service is.

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    HubcapJennyHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:13pm

    I would agree, except that smartphones used to be luxury items, too. Now they still are, but there are no more payphones.

    Maybe that's a bad example, since non-smart phones can be affordable for almost anyone who has any money at all. But still, it feels like there's a growing trend of inexpensive public services being replaced by luxuries. I don't want my only transport options boiling down to Uber or walking.

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      Hamilton NolanHubcapJenny
      1/08/14 1:28pm

      Generally I think the more something becomes a public need, the more the public has a compelling case for calling for govt regulation/ intervention in the public interest. So, for example, the internet has gone from being a quirky niche product to a standard feature of life, and the public has come to have a more and more compelling case for regulation. Uber is just a luxury good.

      Public transportation in general is an extremely important issue but that is mostly about public investment in infrastructure, etc, not hollering about Uber.

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      amgarreHubcapJenny
      1/08/14 4:05pm

      What I don't understand is how jitneys are illegal, but this is OK? Is it just the use of the smartphone?

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    CarwoodHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:31pm

    "Addicted to convenience"

    That my friends, that beautiful sum of three words is a perfect description of how my generation acts. (I'm in my mid-20's)

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      antoinettemarieCarwood
      1/09/14 9:23am

      I'm in my mid-20s and cannot afford cabs. I can barely afford the public transit monthly discounted pass. Don't act like we're all somehow entitled assholes.

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      Carwoodantoinettemarie
      1/09/14 1:11pm

      I was speaking in generalities. More so in regards to how impatient our peers tend to be in this day in age. It very much has to do with us being more privy to instant gratification than those before us due to the expansion of technology during our upbringing. That and how schools are getting rid of games that declare winners and losers..but I digress on the latter. And trust me Im in the same boat as you. It sucks but hopefully it only gets better.

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    ARP2Hamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:12pm

    The only point of dispute I have is that there are a lot of fees and requirements for Taxi's (e.g. the cost of a medallion, safety accessibility, etc.) which makes them less competitive with Uber. I guess I'm trying to figure out when a car service of any kind should be licensed, regulated, etc.

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      Johnny LemuriaARP2
      1/08/14 1:22pm

      The cost of medallions isn't an argument against Uber, it's an agrument against the concept of medallions.

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      ARP2Johnny Lemuria
      1/08/14 1:28pm

      What about safety? Cars in good operating condition, etc. Do cars need to be ADA accessible. If they start to displace taxis, can they refuse to go to certain neighborhoods?

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    Mount_PrionHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:03pm

    Boycotting sounds like an awfully active process.

    Easier to continue ignoring it. Same end result!

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      SuperHybridSystem3Mount_Prion
      1/08/14 1:06pm

      We should invent an app that lets you boycott from anywhere.

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      Mount_PrionSuperHybridSystem3
      1/08/14 1:08pm

      I dub thee Goober.

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    thingsandstuffHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:11pm

    I have a transit-lazy partner who convinced me to sell my car when we moved to this large Midwestern city with ample transit. We live three miles from her job, and not only is there a 40 minute commute for a fee (with a transfer available), the university partner works for has an express bus that happens to run door to door from two blocks away, making it a 20 minute FREE ride. One day (several) I had a job out of town for the day and used her car, and found out partner worked from home and then Ubered to and from a two hour meeting. I deleted uber off of partners phone in protest. We aren't rich, that lazy shit adds the fuck up and there are literally dozens of cheaper or FREE ways for partner's travel that are actually faster.

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      imnethingsandstuff
      1/08/14 1:23pm

      Sorry I am trying to follow you and know what it's like to just try to type out something quickly.

      So by transit lazy you mean she just doesn't like driving? Or the hassle of parking and things? Or just expects to be chauffeured around?

      And she kept her car but made you sell your car?

      And by 40 minute commute, you mean it takes her 40 minutes to commute to her job 3 miles away? But the university partner she works for has an express bus that is close by with a 20 minute free ride? And the meetings you referred to were at this place that was just 3 miles away and instead of taking the free shuttle bus she used Uber?

      Kind of sounds like she wanted you to sell your car so you could just drive her around in hers and wouldn't be out doing things in your car so that she had to get herself places. That would drive me crazy! And is there really crazy traffic or just very indirect routes? I guess it is really cold but I would rather bike or something than spend up to 40 minutes to just go a few miles.

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      Stacker2thingsandstuff
      1/08/14 4:05pm

      Cool story bro.

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    christianayHamilton Nolan
    1/08/14 1:11pm

    Why does Seamless count as a luxury service? They don't charge extra for delivery, it's the same as ordering on the phone except you don't have to talk to humans. Is there something I'm missing?

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      LiliVonShtuppHamilton Nolan
      1/08/14 1:55pm

      I use Uber quite a bit in Boston. I can't readily get a street hail where I live, and to call a cab usually results in a 15-20 minute wait. So I use Uber to get a taxi to my place in about 5 minutes and pay $1 extra for that. Otherwise the cab costs exactly the same. This has spurred the local cab companies to develop apps that allow you to call them to your location from your smartphone - a great development. If a cab isn't available, I'll use the UberX - which costs about the same as a cab, or I'll get a black car. That can end up costing about $6-7 more on the normal trip I take, but it's worth it when I'm in a transport jam.

      As for the surge pricing - we tried to use Uber during the storm, saw the prices, and decided to dig the car out instead. This had the effect of freeing up the car we would have used to someone else for whom the price was worth it. But that price was clear and it wasn't worth the money to us. Just note that these are all voluntary transaction we are engaging in and to complain about the terms AFTER engaging in a voluntary transaction is bullshit.

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        cuttydiamondLiliVonShtupp
        1/08/14 2:06pm

        I also live in Boston and my experience with Uber has been exactly the same as yours. It's not that much more than a cab and on date nights a black car makes you feel pretty good. We will also get the SUV when we have a group of people together. Much cheaper than 2 cabs or parking.

        I'll also add that the drivers of the black cars and SUVs tend to be much nicer than your average cab driver. We've had good conversations with most of them during the drive.

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        pussygalore134LiliVonShtupp
        1/08/14 2:06pm

        There were several posts during that time where users stated that no warning on prices came up on their screens.

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