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    raindropsonrosesMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 8:19pm

    I can't help but feel like Black feminists and white feminists live in two different worlds. As a black woman it's always been difficult for me to feel aligned with white women, as they decry the control that white males have in the world despite the fact that these "powerful white males" are their brothers, fathers, sons, and husbands, and they benefit from that power.

    White women benefit from the power that white men have in a way the majority of WOC, do not. Western white women are probably the most protected group of humans on this planet, they're a lot more likely to be sympathized with in any situation than a WOC. So it's makes me roll my eyes to the back of my head when privileged white women then judge the decisions of WOC, whether it be Rihanna, Michelle Obama, Beyonce, Oprah, as if they were raised in the same cultural bubble as black women. When they judge black women as if we have the same choices, freedoms, and opportunities that they have/have always had, it makes me roll my eyes. This is actual one of the reasons I find myself distancing myself more and more from mainstream feminism.

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      jlf3raindropsonroses
      11/25/13 8:46pm

      This assumption depresses me because it is not my reality as a white woman. I am not protected by anyone. I am excluded and treated like a child. That's not okay.

      But, yes, these women who write these pieces are often wealthy and have more privilege in general than their contemporaries, both black and white. I feel like I'm really tired of them representing anyone's interests.

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      Martha_Jones21raindropsonroses
      11/25/13 8:52pm

      Yes. And not only are they protected, but they are also oppressors. If I had a nickle for everytime a white women made herself by subjugating the body/appropriating the ideas of a Black woman than I would have the networth of Bill Gates.

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    HermioneStrangerMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 8:24pm

    Since Harris-Perry *tragically* didn't actually post her syllabus, this seems like a good place to point out that Patricia Hill-Collins' Black Feminist Thought is a fabulous starting place and resource to find other Black feminist works.

    ETA: if there is one thing that I think white, straight, American feminists keep assuming that keeps leading to these issues, it is that "women", as a group, have a "shared oppression", and so any woman who does or says something different from mainstream feminists must simply be suffering from internalized misogyny. But we don't. How, exactly, women experience gendered oppression varies greatly based upon a great number of factors, and assuming that we've all had the same experiences and that what is liberatory for us will be the same thing does us no favors. It doesn't even achieve the "unity" it is so often justified under.

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      agentpurpletie42HermioneStranger
      11/26/13 12:23am

      So I have a question and I really am interested in an answer. In my feminism, I mainly fight for political and medical rights, which I think is different from the feminism that is attempting to redefine what it means to be a woman, which I feel is two different battles. So my question is: Would it be racist to assume that all females, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc., need the same medical rights and the same female political rights (meaning rights separate from laws need to protect from racism?)? Or does that make sense? Please help me clarify this in my head.

      As for deciding what should define women in this day and age, I definitely think that will be culturally specific, and I'm curious as to an universal traits that will surface, if any. I started an online magazine to spark that discussion, but I've been slow at getting it going.

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      HermioneStrangeragentpurpletie42
      11/26/13 1:16am

      Hmmm. Well, it would probably be racist to assume that cross-nationally; there are really so many different legal structures and cultural differences I feel very uncomfortable saying that all women need the same rights, and it just seems best to not assume any universality. But in America, the issue tends to be less that we don't all need the same rights, and more that not everyone is lacking the same rights or needs those rights quite as badly as others. So, like take abortion. Abortion's just a great right to have. Buuuut, many women have also not had the right to bear and keep children - they have histories of forcible sterilization, of being declared unfit mothers and having their children taken away for things that would be deemed NBD if done by rich white hetero parents, etc. Or like lesbians - sure, it's always good to be able to have an abortion if you get raped (or consensually sleep with a dude, because, reasons), but the big reproductive barrier tends to be getting sperm and getting impregnated without having to have sex with a man and without it costing a fortune; add in issues of not being allowed to adopt or being at risk of being declared an unfit parent, and abortion just drops way way down as a priority. There's a lot of Black feminist scholarship on how the welfare system really controls Black and poor female sexuality - if you're middle class, you get a tax break for having more kids, but if you're on welfare, having too many kids disqualifies you from getting governmental help. Or take sex - straight women have barriers to being able to have their nonconsent taking seriously, but lesbians and mentally disabled women have barriers with being seen as unable to consent, and black women have a history of being seen as literally unrapeable. So the issue becomes less "x is a bad right to have" and more "x shouldn't be a priority the way it is; x isn't really all that liberating, but we desperately need y."

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    zap rowsdowerMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 7:00pm
    Before we enter the 2016 election cycle and the feminists come asking black women for our support for your candidate, you might want to read up a bit on black women and our feminism. I can send you a syllabus!
    GIF
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      AudreyCanBlogzap rowsdower
      11/25/13 7:33pm
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      ambitiouszap rowsdower
      11/25/13 7:55pm

      It is the best of "let me help you with that - you seem to be struggling, love" shade. The one time I got to use "I can send you a syllabus!" in this way was just the g.d. greatest.

      She fucking wins.

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    SeusssayerMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 7:18pm

    I find the dismissal of the First Lady's work pretty depressing. Yes, "who can hate a vegetable garden" - and, yes, I've often noticed that the First Lady operates in a very feminized space - but she's tackling serious issues. /publichealthnerd

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      notquitegingahSeusssayer
      11/25/13 8:18pm

      not to mention the inherent gendering of issues that occur in the "private" space that women ares supposed to manage, like food. it's only gendered and "not important" because people decided it was.

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      Seusssayernotquitegingah
      11/25/13 11:45pm

      Yes! I mean, she's only addressing physical activity and diet, issues that every human being deals with daily, and where poor choices can lead to injury or death. If today's children grow up in poor health, that could affect our country's economic productivity, the fitness of our military....but I guess that's just lady stuff!

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    AFinLAMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 8:12pm

    Well done, MHP.

    Also, I totally want that syllabus...in the absence of that, Jezzies, any suggestions on reading material on this topic are welcome.

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      parangaricutirimicuaroAFinLA
      11/25/13 9:21pm

      15 Free Ebooks By Black Women

      I think this could be a good start. If the links don't work, look them up in the amazing tumblr "readabookson"

      1. The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness - Michelle Alexander

      2. Behind the Mask of the Strong Black Woman: Voice and the Embodiment of a Costly Performance - Tamara Beauboeuf-Lafontant

      3. Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment (Routledge Classics) - Patricia Hill Collins

      4. Black Sexual Politics: African Americans, Gender, and the New Racism - Patricia Hill Collins

      5. Angela Davis: An Autobiography - Angela Davis

      6. Are Prisons Obsolete? - Angela Davis

      7. If They Come In The Morning - Angela Davis

      8. Women, Race and Class - Angela Davis

      9. All About Love: New Visions - bell hooks

      10. Feminism is for Everybody - bell hooks

      11. I Am Your Sister: Collected and Unpublished Writings of Audre Lorde - Audre Lorde

      12. Sula - Toni Morrison

      13. Killing the Black Body: Race Reproduction and the Meaning of Liberty - Dorothy Roberts

      14. Assata: An Autobiography - Assata Shakur

      15. Skin Deep Spirit Strong: The Black Female Body in American Culture - Kimberly Wallace-Sanders

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      Slay Belleparangaricutirimicuaro
      11/26/13 2:33am
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    Seize: it's about ethics in gossip journalismMadeleine Davies
    11/25/13 7:00pm

    "If you think there is no political risk, maybe you haven't been paying attention."

    BOOOOOOOM!

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      nappyheadfloMadeleine Davies
      11/26/13 9:41am

      solidarityisforwhitewomen when Michelle Obama is considered to be a mockery of feminism while Sheryl Sandberg is praised and lauded. Michelle came from the southside of Chicago, was SELF MADE without previous financial stability (parents were working class), she made MORE THAN BARACK and was the leading breadwinner in their household (honestly no one has hid from this story), be a political figure of her own IF SHE WANTED TO, not to mention she's disrupting a shit load of stereotypes and is a uplifting figure for black feminism. Fuck this lady Michelle Cottle

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        abbababbaMadeleine Davies
        11/25/13 7:07pm

        Ugh...Michelle Cottle totally fulfills society's stereotype of the strident, middle-aged, white, upper class feminist. She does a disservice to feminism at a time when our goal should be to be more inclusive. Glad somebody publicly called her on it.

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          TabithaMadeleine Davies
          11/25/13 7:30pm

          Oooh, I agree with you 100%, but can I have your syllabus anyway, Ms. Harris-Perry?

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            AudreyCanBlogTabitha
            11/25/13 7:35pm

            I'll have what she's having!!

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          BaakusMadeleine Davies
          11/25/13 8:45pm

          White people being clueless when it comes to non-white people? What a shocker.

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