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    wordswithsamErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:13pm

    I'm sorry. Is that a penis in blackface?

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      maybeyoushoulddrivewordswithsam
      11/13/13 4:19pm

      Can't tell - is it a white penis wearing makeup or an actual black penis in an ironic costume? Is it Lily's penis? Azealia's penis?

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      PinkiePiewordswithsam
      11/13/13 4:20pm

      No, it's a black penis in dickface.

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    wordswithsamErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:16pm

    I think it perpetuates more than criticizes the problems she's trying to put on blast. I remember the first time I watched it, it started very strong and the lyrics were stinging. Then when it left the operating room, I felt like all the hard work the first minute accomplished was wiped away. I believe she was not intending to be racist, etc. But the finished product does not do much further the discussion. It just rehashes current problems.

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      Erin Gloria Ryanwordswithsam
      11/13/13 4:16pm

      Completely agree.

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      somethingswrongwithyouwordswithsam
      11/13/13 4:34pm

      I agree re: failing to further the discussion. Producing commentary about the objectification of women whilst objectifying women is not going to be particularly successful. Maybe if the dancers were all dressed in ways not conventionally thought to be sexy (blue jeans and t-shirts, sweatpants, pajamas, etc.) that would have made her Allen's point more aptly.
      Without reading/hearing about a supposed racial controversy, it would not have occurred to me at all that there was one. The idea that the video "elevates Allen's white female body whilst denigrating the black female body" is ridiculous. No one and nothing is elevated by that video.

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    CorggirlErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:25pm

    Wait. If I say, "I love your dress" to someone and she thinks I said it sarcastically and takes it as an insult, it's an insult? No. It may be a perceived insult, sure, but perceptions are not always reality. The other examples you cite are fine, but this one seems very wrong.

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      MyPrettyFloralBonnetCorggirl
      11/13/13 4:44pm

      Is it an insult? No. Is it hurtful even though it's not an insult? Yes. Especially if all day long people have been telling her how stupid her dress looks.

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      saavy.mCorggirl
      11/13/13 4:49pm

      "You're really smart for a woman" is also a compliment... "You look really thin in that dress" is also a compliment...

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    kshortie16Erin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:14pm
    GIF

    Lily Allen is another example of a white feminist who doesn't actually understand intersectionality. I've met quite a few of these types of feminists. Some of them even read bell hooks. Or something. Welp. Nothing to see here, folks.

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      TyrannosaurusBataarkshortie16
      11/13/13 4:19pm

      You always have the absolute best white people gifs. Bravo.

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      shadowshadownoTyrannosaurusBataar
      11/13/13 4:23pm

      Oh yeah, those silly white people, oh geez, oh wow, crazy stuff amirite?

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    willsomeonethinkofthechitlinsErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:20pm

    You know who did a great satire of all of the bullshit in rap videos and music in general? Lupe Fiasco in "Dumb It Down." TLC did it in "Hat To The Back." So it's possible. I have a problem with calling out hip-hop, but indie music isn't called out for its sexism and how come Lily didn't call out the "Manic Pixie Girl" trope? Naah, let's continue to exploit women. If you have to explain it, your satire has missed the mark.

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      Sunnyside_Ladywillsomeonethinkofthechitlins
      11/13/13 4:26pm

      TLC's Hat 2 Da Back.... I haven't thought about that song in FOREVER. Damn those girls were good!

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      drunkendruidwillsomeonethinkofthechitlins
      11/13/13 5:59pm

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    sugarhilErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:17pm

    Do you guys ever consider publishing articles on the same topic at the same time in a point-counter point? I think this is an interesting perspective contrast to the piece from yesterday (also would have worked with your piece and Barry's on Brown's rape).

    Lily Allen's 'Hard Out Here' Is Scathing Pop Culture Commentary Lily Allen's 'Hard Out Here' Is Scathing Pop Culture Commentary Lily Allen's 'Hard Out Here' Is Scathing Pop…

    There's nothing subtle about Lily Allen's new video for her song "Hard Out… Read more Read more

    I feel like you used to do that back in the day, have posts that were a dialogue/debate amongst the staff? Maybe I made that up. Anyway, you should consider it, I think it would lead to an interesting discussion in the comments if things were presented from both sides from the get go.

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      Scientistasugarhil
      11/13/13 4:37pm

      I think this is a great point. I can't really grasp my mind around how Jez hasn't really figured this out yet. For instance with the Miley thing...I was so excited to see commentary and when it came out on here and was not about the appropriation, at first, I was totes stunned. Same goes for this. I think Lily is doing no favors for herself either. If this was intentional and was meant to be commentary then I don't know whether this would be as offensive. But the fact that she is saying that it wasn't intentional and she wanted the video to be this way is super odd. It is sort of the anti-meta. She is basically trying to start a discussion about something that she has no idea she is participating in.

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      Kate Driessugarhil
      11/13/13 4:39pm

      I can't speak for Erin, but in this particular case, this topic wouldn't have worked as a point-counterpoint because my feelings on the video have totally changed. Yesterday, I was giving Allen the benefit of the doubt that she was aware of the racial implications of what she was doing and was including the backup dancers as commentary (though I was unconvinced about whether it was wholly effective or not, the whole thing was certainly striking). But with Allen's remarks today, it's pretty clear she didn't think about race then, and she doesn't want to think about it now, which is disappointing to say the least.

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    perdueErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:28pm

    I'm so sick of people claiming things are "satire" or "criticism" when they're just doing the exact same thing they're allegedly satirizing. THIS times eleventy. "Lily's treatment of the Women of Colour in her film clip is a classic case of ironic racism, where she claims to be progressive and sarcastically challenging the norms, but she doesn't do anything more than present them."

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      hocoutureperdue
      11/13/13 5:03pm

      I was really pulling for her, and I hope she addresses this explicitly. I mean, surely the irony of the video could not have escaped her. Right? Right?! Sigh.

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      catfaceperdue
      11/13/13 5:13pm

      Yes! There are sooo many people who think saying "it's satire" is their get out of jail free card.

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    jifaner13Erin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:40pm

    Does this mean we are at the point where we can have no backup dancers? I don't know. I see both sides to this (and wish I could UNSEE that...penis? Gah.), but it also feels a bit dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. If a white artist has only white dancers in a video, it's a problem. If they have a mix, it's a problem. If they have only minority dancers, it's a big problem. I don't disagree with the problems these things present, but I don't really see a good solution I guess? Maybe the back up dancers need to be the fully clothed ones and the main artist half naked, heh.

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      Wendi Musejifaner13
      11/13/13 4:55pm

      um, did you see the video? it's excessive ... they are doing far more than dancing

      and i get that this is allen's point to ridicule this excess, but she just reinforces it, even more so because they are black women, whose bodies we are very much conditioned to seeing hyperobjectified in the most extreme of ways...

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      laureltreedaphnejifaner13
      11/13/13 5:02pm

      The problem isn't having backup dancers. It's objectifying them, and having only one sex of dancer. Here's a very old example, Britney's "Slave For You."

      There's a mix of all different ethnicities as her background dancers, and they're all pretty sexy. But they're not all female, and they're actually dancing - not basically existing to shake their ass and tits in the face of the viewer.

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    BekabyErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:38pm

    Macklemore sucks because he's a white straight cis male who openly acknowledges his privilege but doesn't then also choose to hide under a rock.

    Lily Allen sucks because she's a white woman who knows about and cares about how it feels to be a woman in this world, but she didn't show complete sensitivity to the issues surrounding intersectionality in American feminism.

    Beyonce sucks because in naming her tour she denied her personhood and reinforced the anachronistic and patriarchal tradition of taking her husband's name.

    I'm tired of hating everyone but Jennifer Lawrence. Quick, somebody post something about the Real Housewives of Any County and we'll all tralala about our faves and pretend like there's nothing wrong with them and everything wrong with Lily Allen.

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      welllahdeedahBekaby
      11/13/13 10:59pm

      Seconded. Jezebel readership is so diverse, and nobody ever really acknowledges that. We're all coming at this from our own experience, right? It's the best any of us can do. It would be nice if we didn't have to attack one another in the process. I see a lot of us vs. them rhetoric through this comment thread, and it's bumming me out.

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      House Milkshaker of DaftbollocksBekaby
      11/14/13 5:45am

      she didn't show complete sensitivity to the issues surrounding intersectionality in American feminism.

      Completely. Though she is a young British woman from a very privileged background who went to the same school as Daniel Day-Lewis - she probably didn't take a women's studies class at a North American university that may or may not cost a shit load of money to attend. I am woman and a feminist and also a not-American and sometimes I think we overseas get a lot of flack at Jez for not knowing American terms like intersectionality (i know what it is but I bet 99% of not-American people do not). It is a different kind of condescension here and one entirely justified at Jez because us stupid olde foreigns what don't know feminist socio-political theories what are in books and that.

      Lily's video was a hamfisted attempt at satire and I can see why people have an issue with it. But there are bigger battles than this out there. I cannot get angry at a stupid video.

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    BecArmoErin Gloria Ryan
    11/13/13 4:17pm

    I think she should have had scantily clad male back-up dancers. That would have subverted the Robin Thicke trope without perpetuating racist/sexist stereotypes.

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