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sugarhilKate Dries
11/02/13 2:22pm
I'm kind of behind the people who don't like the word. It immediately brings forth a negative connotation for so many people of angry bra burning women folk when really it's supposed about equality in general. It divides the cause from other important fights for equality when the real goal should be to make sure each individual person is assessed as an individual not as a woman/black/gay/etc.

Sometimes you have to distance yourself from a word and not a concept. I would never balk at being called a feminist, but I wouldn't volunteer the term either - it turns too many people's brains off and I'd rather argue about the issues than worry about how people percieve the term and history of feminism.

I don't particularly like the term humanist but am not sure there's a better one out there. Equalist? Human being who believes that people of all genders, races, and creeds should be treated as equal unless they're assholes?
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  La Patronasugarhil
  11/02/13 2:25pm
  Exactly; the negative connotation is so strong.
  
  I absolutely went out of my way to be *not* a feminist when I was younger, purely because I'd met so many people who said they were feminists and they were absolutely people I did not want to associate myself with.
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  sugarhilLa Patrona
  11/02/13 2:32pm
  I don't avoid it, I just don't really think it's worth fighting over a word. What do I care what they call themselves as long as they believe in equality, you know?
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HermioneStrangerKate Dries
11/02/13 2:26pm
Just like everything else that makes it into the dictionary, feminism is so much more than just a definition. What if we admitted that? What if we admitted that, yeah, actually, for every single one of these stereotypes, there is at least one feminist out there actually saying this shit? (And no, I don't mean like someone's Aunt Sally, I mean someone who was involved in activism and managed to at least publish a zine or something.)

Feminism is a big social movement that spans over a century and all seven continents. It has many different schools of thought, and different strains with different tactics and theories. It has a really long-ass, complicated history, with power dynamics and all. If you have not found at least one feminist who says shit that appalls the living shit out of you, you haven't read enough of them.

But the other side of that is: there is probably a feminist out there who says things you like and agree with. There is probably a feminist out there who says things that you agree with so much you get hella inspired and want to stand right along side her. And I wish instead of condescendingly treating everyone like every advanced-level question can be answered with Webster's, we tried to point people in the direction of the feminism they'd like to be part of. But we need to stop bullying people into identifying as feminists, because if there's any lesson we should be learning from queers, it's that identity is incredibly complicated.
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  ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ : Riot GRRR is RUNNING WILDHermioneStranger
  11/02/13 3:17pm
  That's what bugs me about this topic. People always always talk about the misinformation and the smear campaigns that feminism has endured, but at the same time, what these women are saying is not shit that was just made up out of the blue. Valerie Solanas wrote the SCUM Manifesto and tried to kill Andy Warhol. The way Andrea Dworkin and similar minds talk about men and maleness in their various publications makes *me* feel uncomfortable.
  
  If you really want people embracing feminism for what it's about at it's core - equality - you need to acknowledge that it has sheltered some fucked up lines of reasoning.
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  vmarieHermioneStranger
  11/02/13 3:30pm
  "If you have not found at least one feminist who says shit that appalls the living shit out of you, you haven't read enough of them."
  
  Ain't that the truth. I was afraid to utter the term "feminist" about myself for years because I was so incredibly appalled by Andrea Dworkin. Eventually I snapped out of it and found a lot of feminist philosophy I agreed and identified with, but I agree that distilling feminism down to "hey, just equality" is asinine and disingenuous. Feminism has been a long, strange trip and it's nowhere near over.
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Sirdam TychoTronicKate Dries
11/02/13 2:29pm
I mean, Jezebel doesn't say it's feminist either. So.
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  HermioneStrangerSirdam TychoTronic
  11/02/13 2:34pm
  
  GIF
  
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  YoanaSirdam TychoTronic
  11/02/13 2:39pm
  This should be at the top.
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Fibonacci SequinsKate Dries
11/02/13 2:21pm
So all of these powerful, popular, and influential women would rather keep the "label" as a stereotype and step far away from it, than identify themselves as "feminist" and change the way in which the word is perceived? Rather than take the opportunity to be a vanguard for modern feminism, they would prefer to shun the term and perpetuate the idea that it means to be a bra-burning man hater? COOL BEANS! I'm so glad these are the women we are supposed to be looking up to.
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  kamberbatchFibonacci Sequins
  11/02/13 2:26pm
  what does modern feminism mean? I am in academia (a social science) and I don't even have a clue what this means. to be fair, i don't study anything related to gender. but is it possible that many women, especially those quoted above, are far removed from the rhetoric of "feminism" and their only contact with it is they stereotypes perpetuated in media? Why hold that against them?
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  lunaFibonacci Sequins
  11/02/13 2:29pm
  I think the point is that the label of feminism causes a visceral revulsion by many (most?) mainstream women - not just celebrities. It's not a new criticism.
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OnlyOneNerveLeftKate Dries
11/02/13 2:35pm
This may be beyond the point, but can we have an article in which we list those who do label themselves as a feminist? Please !

GIF

It would be really interesting (and positive) to read about celebrities thoughts on feminism who embrace it.
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  chundi2OnlyOneNerveLeft
  11/02/13 2:44pm
  Let's see...Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Zooey Deschanel, Lena Dunham (though I know she's not popular around here), Ellen Page, Keira Knightley, Kerry Washington, Romola Garai, Ashley Judd, Jane Fonda, Meryl Streep, Natalie Portman, Geena Davis, Kate Winslet, Cate Blanchett.
  
  That's from a few minutes of Googling; I'm sure there are more.
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  OnlyOneNerveLeftchundi2
  11/02/13 2:50pm
  You see, that is so awesome! I would love to have their quotes about the topic consolidated. Thanks for that! I didn't know about a lot of them.
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CHIEF QUEEFKate Dries
11/02/13 2:21pm
...or maybe they just don't consider themselves feminists? Like it or not, contemporary Western feminism is associated in popular parlance with a specific brand of identity politics - one which many people, including many strong independent women, may find problematic or irrelevant to their circumstances.

Rather than calling them all 'misguided', perhaps it would make sense to apply a little introspection in thinking about why the word might carry such negative associations in these women's minds?

No? Okay, carry on.
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  JustDave420CHIEF QUEEF
  11/02/13 2:43pm
  I think you might be on to something, but then again if we're going strictly by the definition of the word feminism, then there's really nothing to object to.
  
  For comparison, if you look up the word communism, it's not nearly as straightforward. Here's what Google defines it as:
  
  a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
  
  There is way more to pick apart in that definition than the innocuous definition of feminism. So, I would suggest that, despite any negative associations people have with feminists or feminism, it is not a dirty word.
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  HermioneStrangerCHIEF QUEEF
  11/02/13 2:53pm
  But don't you know that the way to make feminism more inclusive isn't to rework a lot of base theories and practices to be more holistic, it's to reduce feminism to bumper-sticker slogans?
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YoanaKate Dries
11/02/13 2:27pm
Bjork, you break my heart. I'm helpless before you though. I will always adore you.

As for Taylor Swift, this:

if you work as hard as guys, you can go far in life

sounds a bit like saying women haven't gone as far as men because we haven't worked as hard.

ETA: You know what, on second thought I don't think what Bjork said was that bad. She was speaking from a specific perspective and she named it. It's her prerogative to call or not call herself something based on her personal experience with it.
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  PortraitOfMmeXYoana
  11/02/13 2:47pm
  This is a thing young women believe, apparently. I had an undergrad in an art history class once inform me, after a lecture on women in the arts during the 19th century, that women should have worked harder in the 19th century if they had wanted to be great artists.
  
  Like, kid go sit in the corner and memorize Linda Nochlin, okay?
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  AnneWellsPortraitOfMmeX
  11/02/13 2:55pm
  We just need to attach the bootstraps to our high heels, apparently.
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MaladySaladyKate Dries
11/02/13 2:58pm
The only person on this list who saddens me (but doesn't surprise me) is Sandra Day O'Connor. I don't really think I should expect to be educated/inspired about feminism by Taylor Swift or Sarah Jessica Parker. It's not like they have to be "feminists" to sing or act. I'm more frightened by female political leaders who aren't "feminist." Do they just not grasp that they literally would not be where they are without feminism? And that it can slip away through legislation again?
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  LinaMaladySalady
  11/02/13 3:55pm
  Feminism isn't the only ideology on gender equality, though. Just because someone is uncomfortable with the wider cultural practices that make up Feminism as a concept doesn't mean they are anti-gender equality or anti-women. Likely there are plenty of things O'Conner appreciates and understands about Feminism, and some she disagrees with or has more complicated feelings on. Perhaps she, like many people, feels that an ideological label is a barrier to more complex and effective dialogue, as labels can turn off a great many people from even entering the conversation.
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  thebloodofthematadorMaladySalady
  11/02/13 6:10pm
  I remember thinking this when Liz Trotta had her "women in the military complaining that they're being raped too much" moment. She bitched about how "the feminists" are the ones who want women to be warriors and victims at the same time, or something, and it was all "the feminists' fault." And I thought to myself, well, I'm sure glad you have a nice job in an air-conditioned office sitting in front of TV news cameras instead of being forced to sit at home while your husband worked. I'm sure feminism had nothing to do with any of that.
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GertrudetheRobotKate Dries
11/02/13 2:26pm
Ugh, it is stuff like this that leads to a complete misunderstanding of mainstream feminism. I'm not a huge fan of having to explain that it isn't about women being better than men and that we are just looking for equality, but I guess I'll just keep explaining again and again ad infinitum.
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  pockyordieGertrudetheRobot
  11/02/13 3:12pm
  That's mostly true but it also depends on which theory you advocate when you call yourself a feminist. There are radical feminists who do see women as being superior and want the culture to turn into a matriarchy instead of being an equal society. Unfortunately, though this group contains a small number of feminists, they do leave an impression with a lot of people and are the main reason the word is so tainted.
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  Misty BerkowitzGertrudetheRobot
  11/02/13 3:20pm
  I'm with you. It's not that complicated, really. Take away the stereotypes and fearful misconceptions, and look at what it really means. Do you believe women should have rights, opportunities, and respect equal to men? Then you're a feminist. If you think that women are less worthy of respect than men, then you're not. If you believe women shouldn't have the same rights and opportunities as men, then you're not. But who would really say that other than Fox News, the Taliban, and their ilk?
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DarkTowerLateArrivalKate Dries
11/02/13 4:25pm
Women who say they aren't feminists have let people who they actually detest redefine the word for them. I think the rejection of the word is like giving Rush Limbaugh a big old hug.

If you worry about being seen as the worst stereotypes, then don't be the worst stereotypes, but keep the word. Expect others to be smarter by not throwing out a good word that others are misdefining or have had others misdefine for them.

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  theoutsider89DarkTowerLateArrival
  11/02/13 4:52pm
  THIS. I can hear what people are saying when they say we should be focusing on things that feminism wants us to vs. fighting over a word with a negative connotation but it has a negative connotation because people haven't stopped to even think about what feminism actually is. I think that's worth a fight. Feminism is focuses on giving power to a half of the world that has been/and is incredibly marginalized. When I hear someone's a feminist, I feel solidarity. I feel that someone else recognizes that the plight of women, the shit women have had to go through and still do when compared with men is not trivial and most of all should not even be happening. That is what I think of when I hear the word feminism/feminist. I also find it problematic that we have all of these same women out here who don't identify as feminist trying to reclaim the word bitch and slut (actual deragatory terms reserved for women) as something that's cute and positive but oh no, we shouldn't reclaim the word feminist? What?
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  McJulieDarkTowerLateArrival
  11/02/13 5:48pm
  Yes, exactly.
  
  It's also why I never bought into the idea that it was bad to call myself a liberal and that I needed to "rebrand" as a "progressive" — I mean, I am progressive, but I am also a liberal. They don't have quite the same meaning. I refuse to concede any rhetorical ground to people I despise.
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