Kinja reply list

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ItsARampageLanaDoug Barry
10/27/13 5:06pm
"Stop being sluts, woman of color and woman who does music associated with women of color! Be classy like this white lady who performs stereotypically 'white' music!"

Yeah, he and Barney's are a good fit.
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  CrunchyConItsARampageLana
  10/27/13 5:13pm
  You're not wrong, IMO, but Joni Mitchell is almost asexual. To me it reads not so much as "black sexuality bad, white sexuality good" but more "please don't show any sexuality at all."
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  theboogiecatItsARampageLana
  10/27/13 5:47pm
  I'm not sure the race issue was actually in there. Joni Mitchell is actually more his era, I'd guess.
  
  Plenty of white women in the music business are showing a lot of skin, and it's been going on for awhile. (cough cough Madonna? just one example of neither new nor black nor mimicking WOC)
  
  I don't think women performers are sluts for doing sexy videos, but why is it that men seem to be able to get attention and sell music without stripping? And doesn't it seem that some women musicians are feeding into that inequality? (Cough cough Miley?)
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intheweedsDoug Barry
10/27/13 5:05pm
“There is a difference between pornography and pop music,” he said. “It’s important . . . to keep that line in place.”

"He said that if he were a singer, he “probably wouldn’t be wearing a ball gag and a thong to perform . . . I’d wear a caftan like Joni Mitchell. If you wore that now, people would say, ‘Oh, what’s wrong with her, why isn’t she pulling her boobies out and exposing herself?’ ”

I don't know that I see anything wrong with this really. It's not shaming to point out that it seems right now that the default and only option for female pop musicians these days is to dress and perform as sexually as possible. The objectification model for female musicians is the default these days and I don't personally understand why it's 'shaming' to point out that no other option seems to exist. He's right, Joni Mitchell's look wouldn't fly these days in pop music.

It's a statement and critique of the default objectification of women to me, rather than shaming. He said nothing about these performers individual choices, just the overall attitude that expects them to perform sexually.
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  ItsARampageLanaintheweeds
  10/27/13 5:08pm
  From his column:
  
  Dressing like a porn-slut indicates, loudly and clearly, that you are more than willing to give head in the stationery closet.
  
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  intheweedsItsARampageLana
  10/27/13 5:10pm
  Well that's a different story altogether, but the link I got from this article was this:
  
  http://pagesix.com/2013/10/26/bar…
  
  pretty much the whole thing was the quote I gave. From that, I didn't get the problem. Can you link the column? I can't find it.
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stripey_tshirtDoug Barry
10/27/13 6:31pm
I think he has a point; why do most modern female performers have to get almost naked in videos?

No its not slut shaming, they're entitled to do it obviously but its a problem when I'm struggling to think of one main stream female performer who doesn't perform in almost nothing!
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  DaliMailstripey_tshirt
  10/27/13 10:21pm
  Janelle Monae is pretty mainstream but for sure the exception rather than the rule it seems.
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  stripey_tshirtDaliMail
  10/28/13 6:47am
  I've not heard of Janelle Monae ( I'm in the UK) its just sad how it seems like a requirement for the job.
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MOAR Champers, Darling?Doug Barry
10/27/13 5:21pm
Doug, Doug, Doug. If you are going to take on Simon Doonan, spend 3 minutes tracing down the original source before throwing out "content" that name checks Miley and Rihanna. Simon is not a man to mess with.
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  MOAR Champers, Darling?MOAR Champers, Darling?
  10/27/13 7:59pm
  GAH! Doug, did you read Doonan's piece? Or did you just scan it for trigger words? Here is the paragraph in its entirety:
  
  "The reality show milieu could only contain the stripperfest for so long, and now it’s BACK! And nastier than ever. A second wave of porno pop is currently raging across our screens, and Doris Day it ain’t. We are descending into a hoochie hellhole. And most young people—particularly those young gals who cut their teeth on Aguilera’s G-strings—are totally unfazed. Everything seems “totes norms” to them. In fact, so inured are they to our oversexed culture that, when they discover the artists of yore on YouTube, they are totally dumbfounded by the lack of throbbing, overt sexual hotness. Yes, that gal Dusty Springfield has a great voice, but why isn’t she showing more cleavage and buttcrack ? Siouxsie Sioux, Nina Hagen, and Debbie Harry were all so creative, but why all the clothes? Why the lack of pasties? And Joni Mitchell? What’s with the caftans and long skirts? Is she covering up a skin complaint? And that belter Janis Joplin? If she was so wild and groovy, how come she kept her velour, tie-die pantsuits on? The least she could have done was pull out one of her boobies."
  
  Yeah, Simon's a real creep, alright. I think I'll end my evening reading one of all of his books I own.
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  kbr14MOAR Champers, Darling?
  10/28/13 2:21am
  I kind of love this quote. And all of those women brought us something new and fresh. At this point, singing and dancing around with no pants on is pretty dull. It was exciting when Pat Benatar did it, but now, yawn. Gals, step it up! Show us something besides your asses.
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NomNom83Doug Barry
10/28/13 10:47am
From what I can gather, Doonan's real mistake here is guilt by association with Barneys. And, meh, I've got other things to get worked up about.

Anyone taking the article 100% seriously should get their sense of humor checked. The man closes with, "Come back, Lawrence Welk! We miss you."
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EldritchDoug Barry
10/27/13 5:13pm
Simon! What are you doing?!
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ethanedwardsDoug Barry
10/27/13 5:15pm
First of all, your headline is misleading. That's really not what he said at all.

Secondly: "[insert something judgey about the line between pop music and pornography}" What? You ladies at the Jez think you have the market cornered on making judgmental assumptions?

Third: I'm all for the muu-muu.
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DaybreakerDoug Barry
10/27/13 7:35pm
I don't understand the fascination with Miley Cyrus. There's nothing very remarkable about her. She dances around in her underwear and sings, sure, but not in a really interesting way. I've seen people do that in interesting ways. Some people are really, really good at it, virtuousos for whom dancing around in their underwear and singing is such a valid and powerful expression that I've wondered if it isn't their divine calling. Marilyn Monroe made it sweet and beautiful. Madonna did it very well. Heck, that lady that twerks to Beethoven? That was special and noteworthy. Even Tom Cruise made it funny. But Miley Cyrus? No. Not yet, at any rate. Maybe she'll get better at it. But right now, I'm not getting the interest people have in the phenomenon of a young girl dancing around in her underwear and singing badly, given the numerous more interesting alternatives vying for peoples' attention.
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moneypowerrespectDoug Barry
10/28/13 12:22am
Wait, read the whole quote. damn, give us some context.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZDoug Barry
10/27/13 10:56pm
Simon, I'm not sure what's worse, your subject matter or your timing.

*smh*
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