Discussion
  • Read More
    KinglyCitrusHamilton Nolan
    9/30/13 3:12pm

    You know, Nolan, I'm usually with you, even when your tone makes you sound like an asshole. This is idiotic, though, and sort of runs counter to your usual "fuck the Brooklyn hipsters" angle. Bitter opposition to creatives who attempt to actually make money and not fulfill the starving artist stereotype is one of the central tenets of hipsterdom- "I liked them before they 'sold out', therefore I am superior." I understand- and I say this without a trace of sarcasm, believe me- that you wish we could live in a socialist utopia where all our needs are met and we would be free to produce art for the sake of art with no thought of money. I wish for it too. It's not reality, though, and you, of all people, should recognize that. You write articles about how shitty the system is all day.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Hamilton NolanKinglyCitrus
      9/30/13 3:17pm

      You can acknowledge both things: that the economics of (for example) the music industry have changed, and that taking corporate sponsorship for music inevitably affects the art.

      Eventually the economics of these arts will reform and stabilize and the choice will be more clear cut once again. In the meantime, the ideas are not mutually exclusive.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      VendataHamilton Nolan
      9/30/13 3:26pm

      Am I wrong for not automatically associating "selling out" with commercial success? To me someone like Kanye who went from rapping against the themes of corporate rap to becoming corporate rap or Gwen Stefani going from a punk bad to whatever the fuck the bananas song was is different than say Sleighbells songs being used to hock shitty plastic phones.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Cam/ronHamilton Nolan
    9/30/13 3:24pm

    When I came of age during the 90's, being called a "sellout" or a "poseur" was considered to be fighting words - especially during my punk days. It's interesting to look back at how such morality in art was so middle-class. Ever noticed how so many rappers, rock bands, and country artists who came from impoverished or working-class backgrounds have no qualms about making a fortune from corporate endorsements and merch? And then you have the punk and indie bands with middle-class roots who basically treat music like a humble hobby and don't mind releasing albums at a financial loss, since "it's all about the art and not the money."

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      tito_swinefluHamilton Nolan
      9/30/13 4:09pm

      I've the proprietor of a punk rock record label for the last 20 years, and I agree that the concept of selling out seems to no longer exist. Marginal / dangerous artists don't even have the option to sell out, and everyone else seems just fine with it.

      However, I think one of the effects of the trend is that selling out has even less worth. Everyone is associated with a brand. Every musician is flogging 10 different brands. As a result, the impact of such flogging is becoming meaningless. I'm not certain the advertisers are getting much out of connecting bands/artists with whatever shitty product they're selling. People who are excited about axe body spray will probably continue to purchase it, whether or not Fugazi endorses it.

      I feel like the saturation of commerce does eat at our souls. When everything is a lie, it becomes difficult to notice the one lonely time that one is presented with the truth. Music will continue to devolve until it's just a quiet background hiss with the occasional brand name spoken over it, requiring extra-strong doses of molly to enjoy it.

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        Eli Manning stars in: Omaha! Omaha! Omaha!Hamilton Nolan
        9/30/13 5:28pm

        Selling out is not getting one of your songs in a car commercial. Selling out is writing a song in hopes of getting it in a car commercial.

        Reply
        <
        • Read More
          ExtraExtraEli Manning stars in: Omaha! Omaha! Omaha!
          9/30/13 8:40pm

          Very true. If your work is created for mass appeal/maximum profit, then you're likely a sell out.

          If you create something that later becomes popular, you're not necessarily one.

          Reply
          <
      • Read More
        heninthefoxhouseHamilton Nolan
        9/30/13 5:47pm

        Selling out isn't exclusively about art and artists. Selling out is about selling your integrity. You can be a journalist and a sell out by forsaking your ethics. You can be a soldier and sell out by accepting payment not to protect your comrades at arms. You can be an artist with aspirations of fine artist who spends so much of his or her time doing commercial work that the soul satisfying stuff never gets made. No line needs to be redrawn; most of us recognize and appreciate integrity when we see it.

        Reply
        <
        • Read More
          diasdiemHamilton Nolan
          9/30/13 3:15pm

          Often times claims of "selling out" seem to be directed at people who have succeeded in making a living off of their art by people who can't even give theirs away.

          Reply
          <
          • Read More
            Cam/rondiasdiem
            9/30/13 3:48pm

            Ditto, I've listened to so many punk and metal bands who made such a fuss about not "selling out," and yet they sound like utter shite onstage or on their poorly mastered 7-inch singles.

            Reply
            <
        • Read More
          Elsewhere1010Hamilton Nolan
          9/30/13 3:58pm

          HamNo, when you say, "There is no longer a penalty for selling out..." I have to disagree. The penalty is all the things an individual artist would have created had they been free. Some of them would have been new things, never seen before, some mere iterations of others' ideas.

          As much as Van Gogh wanted to sell a painting, he never sold out and painted the images that would have supplied him with a livelihood; and a century later we are the richer for it. Out of his poverty came beauty and a new kind of visual truth that we had never seen before.

          Reply
          <
          • Read More
            wallace32Elsewhere1010
            9/30/13 5:26pm

            No, Van Gogh didn't "sell out." He just expected his younger brother to work like a dog, paying all of Vincent's bills for 10 years and buying all of his paint supplies for 10 years so that Vincent, the "pure artist" didn't have to sully his principles by actually lowering himself to get a job, make money, or sell a painting that someone wanted to buy. Vincent Van Gogh was a spoiled, selfish man and, yes, we have some great art now to show for his selfishness but his brother was driven to an early death.

            Reply
            <
          • Read More
            Elsewhere1010wallace32
            10/01/13 10:02pm

            So you would sell your soul for a few more years of Theo's life. So be it. I wonder what Theo would have chosen. Genius isn't kind (Steve Jobs) or particularly hygenic (Michelangelo bathed even less than average for his day) or even logical (Pythagoras forbid the eating of beans when he set up his new religion).

            Theo's option would have been to say no, which in all probability would have led to an earlier death for Vincent. Again, so be it in your world. But my world contains "Starry Night", and will forever be a richer one than yours.

            Reply
            <
        • Read More
          WhompaloompaHamilton Nolan
          9/30/13 3:58pm

          I'm going to date myself, but I remember distinctly the collective howls of indignation when the Red Hot Chili Peppers (who's best-ever song was a shitty cover of a far superior Stevie Wonder song) did this commercial for Nike:

          People were apoplectic. In today's media environment, I cannot see a way in which such a thing would even register in the public consciousness. HamNo's utopian socialistic vision doesn't really work for me, but I do find it sad that the very idea that art should exist outside commercial sponsorship seems to have drifted entirely out of our culture.

          Reply
          <
          • Read More
            largestgrapefruitWhompaloompa
            8/25/14 3:01pm

            wait, what song was the stevie wonder cover?

            Reply
            <
          • Read More
            Whompaloompalargestgrapefruit
            8/25/14 3:04pm

            Higher Ground.

            Reply
            <
        • Read More
          Frank_ElwaysHamilton Nolan
          9/30/13 4:12pm

          Ain't singin' for Pepsi
          Ain't singin' for Coke
          I don't sing for nobody
          Makes me look like a joke

          Still haven't seen a Neil Young cell phone ad, so maybe there is hope.

          Reply
          <
          • Read More
            stacyinbeanHamilton Nolan
            9/30/13 3:05pm

            I think it speaks to the idea of this piece that when I went looking for an applause gif all I could find were gifs of Lady Gaga rolling around on a mattress half naked...

            Reply
            <