Discussion
  • Read More
    HuxtableSweaterKatie J.M. Baker
    9/19/13 8:58pm

    This argument doesn't just end at people writing books. Her argument applies to so many in the NGO world, too. People talk about arrogant bankers and politicians, but jesus me, there are countless arrogant, patronizing, selfish, appropriating NGO do-gooders running around those parts, too. Rarely have I seen as much rudeness and faux-humility as I've seen from so-called educated, save-the-world types all over Africa.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      opheeliaHuxtableSweater
      9/19/13 9:29pm

      http://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_...

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      HuxtableSweateropheelia
      9/19/13 9:35pm

      Hallelujah!

      The sad thing is that so much of this knowledge exists, but ego is a powerful drug.

      Thanks for the share!

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    mc_chicken_nuggetsKatie J.M. Baker
    9/19/13 8:59pm

    This reminds me of this awful article some student at my university (white) wrote about her experience in Uganda. It's not totally related, but it's hilarious how oblivious some people are. http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2013/...

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      CatAssmc_chicken_nuggets
      9/19/13 10:05pm
      GIF


      ZOMG even the title.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      LaComtessemc_chicken_nuggets
      9/19/13 10:48pm

      OMFG.

      O.M.F.G.

      I hatelove you for showing me this.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    FIGJAMKatie J.M. Baker
    9/19/13 8:56pm

    I guess some people don't realize that there's pretty clear line between charity or truly trying to help someone, and attention whoring. I figure that if you head off to another country and spend time with people (building houses, teaching kids, working in a clinic, etc) then come back home and go about your business, then you're probably a pretty decent person. If you do the same thing, then come back home and write a book, go on a talk show, setup a blog about your adventures, then I figure it wasn't REALLY all about helping other people, it was all about helping yourself.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      MsCinephileKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 11:34pm

      I never thought I'd agree with conservatives on anything until I read some of the batshit insane commentary on this thread. Strict and dogmatic adherence to political correctness really is the Achilles' heel of the entire progressive movement. So much so that we're willing to overlook child rape, sexual slavery, and the commodification of women all in the name of cultural relativism.

      Well you know what? FUCK CULTURAL RELATIVISM. FUCK IT IN THE ASS.

      Repeat after me: all people IRRESPECTIVE OF CULTURE are and should be guaranteed basic human rights. Rights such as, oh I don't know, bodily integrity and autonomy, the right to pursue an education, the right to be treated like a fucking PERSON and not some goddamn brood mare.

      Cultural relativism is probably the most potent and insidious tool of the patriarchy. It convinces us to sit back and shut up while women suffer. How many more Malala Yousafzais, Nujood Alis, and Aesha Mohammadzais need there be to convince us that certain "cultural" practices are NOT FUCKING OKAY AND NEVER BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION JUSTIFIABLE?

      And before anyone accuses me of being some White lady in an Ivory tower: I'm a fucking brown lady, just in case my Maria Felix avatar didn't clue you in the first time. As a brown lady, I know *exactly* how insidious and vile "culture" can be as a deterrent against progress and liberation. As a Mexican woman, I'm no stranger to the phrase asi es nuestra cultura: but that's our culture. En nuestra cultura, la familia es primero: in our culture, family comes first. How many times have I not heard that phrase whenever girls express a desire for something other than marriage and motherhood? Or should I just tell my fellow Mexicanas to remain in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant because "that's our culture"?

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        BobLobLaw2013MsCinephile
        9/20/13 1:57am

        You make some good points. There is definitely some terrible Islamophobia on that thread but on the other hand there's a lot of people who seem to say that people on the outside of a culture can never have an opinion on it. That's ridiculous. By that standard Americans had no business commenting on the Apartheid regime in South Africa in the '80s because they aren't from that culture.

        What people outside a culture shouldn't do is talk over people on the inside and impose their solutions on them. They should ask what they can do to help and then provide that assistance. Sometimes in arguing against cultural imperialism we wind up arguing for cultural relativism. Because, remember, the culture in which an gay person is strung up for being gay ins't the culture of the gay person, it's the culture of the hangman. The culture where little girls are shot for going to school isn't the culture of the little girls. It's the culture being enforced on them. The culture of Jim Crow in the American South wasn't the culture of black Americans even though it was the culture in which they lived.

        Besides, in a lot of cases activists who are part of an oppressed group in these situations want international condemnation. It's one of the few pressures available to them.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        iwatchiwonderMsCinephile
        9/20/13 4:50am

        I understand your anger but I think you should look at what Mindy Burgor did- which was to see one thing 'OMG all the Morans are Menz' and address it in a ridiculous way 'If I can become a Moran I can fix this'. In the article she claims to have spoken to ONE Maasai woman who wasn't living in the community that she decided to 'train' in. As a Kenyan woman I can guarantee you that discussions on misogyny and equality are happening within our communities- I have them every day. What we need from our western sisters is not a bizarre form of feminist colonialism (an oxymoron if I have ever heard one) but true solidarity. Inform yourself- ask questions and support the women interacting and attempting to dismantle their specific patriachal monster in little and big ways every day. People like Mindy Burgor assume that Africa is just sitting waiting with baited breath to be saved which is really far from the truth. Also I am a nuanced person- capable of being annoyed by this warrior princess and aware of the problems in my community. These two thoughts can co-exist in my head and I am not sure if your anger acknowledges. Cultural shifts happen through dialogue and not monologue. Not as fast as we would hope or like but we know that they happen. So let's keep talking/ engaging/ pushing back/ asserting our personhood/ lobbying- whatever until it does.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      cew-smokeKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 8:57pm

      "a few sun dances, slept in a tee pee and then claims to be a navajo warrior"

      Wait just a damn minute... so I'm not a real Navajo warrior? What the hell! I was really tired after those dances and I paid the guy a lot of money. That's okay at least I know I'm a real Viking warrior after that email correspondence course. No one can take that away from me. I'll drop everyone a line after I conquer Greenland using only my longboat and a really awesome axe. Wish me luck!

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        milksteakcew-smoke
        9/19/13 9:16pm

        Nah, you're not Navajo until you get the hipster panty.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        Dagobazcew-smoke
        9/19/13 9:45pm

        Not to mention that 8-day black-belt course you took that made you a karateka, the square foot of Scottish highlands that made you a lord, and the canoe trip you did when you were eleven that made you a sailor.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      atomicnumberKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 9:16pm

      BAM! Nicely done, Rarin Ole Sein.

      To all the people nitpicking about her comparison to slave traders: get a grip. She's rightfully pissed and she may have employed a bit of hyperbole to make her point. But she is completely correct that Budgor and the slave traders have something in common: they came to take. Please don't derail by getting hung up on what was originally a Facebook post, not a freakin' edited essay.

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        ambitiousatomicnumber
        9/19/13 9:37pm

        But she is completely correct that Budgor and the slave traders have something in common: they came to take.

        A million times yes.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfishatomicnumber
        9/19/13 9:45pm

        I think it's impatience with the coarsening of the discourse. Not everyone who disagrees with you is WORSE THAN HITLER. Not every dopey cultural-appropriator is WORSE THAN THE SLAVE TRADE.

        I find it rather encouraging that people are getting sick and tired of this kind of hyperbole, frankly. It does no one any good, and contributes nothing, whether it's written on a napkin or in the pages of a newspaper.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      HijabiRockstarKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 9:12pm

      This is like how every couple years a new white woman becomes "THE FIRST WESTERN GEISHA!!!1!!OMG!!" and I roll my eyes right out of my head.

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        SleepyCatHijabiRockstar
        9/19/13 9:21pm

        There are legitimately white sumo wrestlers, though (and they're some of the best who've ever competed), so I don't see why a white woman couldn't become a geisha. Just move to Kyoto at 15, enter a tea house, spend the next 10 years training, and work in the industry.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        HijabiRockstarSleepyCat
        9/19/13 9:27pm

        I agree, but in practice they tend to spend a year in Japan, then spend the next twelve years doing the talk show circuit and writing memoirs.

        And the best sumo wrestlers are CLEARLY Mongolian.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      Gonzo the SomethingKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 10:53pm

      "How would Native Americans feel if someone showed up did a few sun dances, slept in a tee pee and then claims to be a navajo warrior or something?"

      They'd probably think "it's Thursday."

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        ApachewildflowerGonzo the Something
        9/20/13 2:20am

        Yup,... I'm a native gal, and that's pretty much how I feel.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      WillaCatheterKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 8:49pm

      "No difference between her and the slave traders?"

      C'mon, she's just a dumb-ass. But, I'm not sure this reaches the status of blood on an entire nation's hands for history immemorial.

      At best, her book is a mini-Holocaust.

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        résa faceWillaCatheter
        9/19/13 9:07pm

        It's important to keep in mind how colonialism is something that's build into social psyche and structures. That's what allows this type of bullshit to keep perpetuating itself. She's making money off a poor, colonized people, to her benefit and at insult to them and their culture. A lot of the ingrained logic is takes for someone to do that is part of the same value system that was foundational to slave trade.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        SleepyCatWillaCatheter
        9/19/13 9:15pm

        Yeah that line tore me out of the whole thing. Pretttttty sure that if all the Western powers ever did in Africa was go on a vay-cay and write self-aggrandizing books about it to make a buck, the history of the world would have turned out very, very differently.

        Reply
        <
    • Read More
      the69sunshineKatie J.M. Baker
      9/19/13 9:35pm

      This Warrior Princess chick is a remarkable twit! I have many Ghanian friends and they tell me stories of American students coming to University for a semester, who are there for a few months then proceed to tell the Ghanians what is wrong with their country and how to fix it. Africans are perfectly capable of making the changes they believe are necessary without interference from outsiders. What they DO need- are used textbooks, working computers, and a foreign trade policy with the US and Europe that allows Africans to compete in the global marketplace. If you want to visit or study abroad, do so with humility and respect for people who have worked hard, suffered much, and that have more to teach you than you have to teach them.

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        njorlssagathe69sunshine
        9/19/13 9:45pm

        I haven't been to Africa, but I believe that aid to help fight AIDS that's NOT tied to abstinence-only sex ed wouldn't hurt, either.

        Reply
        <
      • Read More
        the69sunshinenjorlssaga
        9/19/13 10:01pm

        Agreed! My friends all come from Ghana which has a relatively low AIDS rate and they also have access to clean water which is the other major concern for a lot of African countries.

        Reply
        <