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    Violet BaudelaireErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 2:00pm

    I feel astounded at how often people don't realize they're being sexist. If you asked the vast majority of men, I'd bet that they would say "Of course I wouldn't discriminate when hiring or promoting", yet unthinkingly gravitate towards only hiring people like themselves.

    I'm not saying this as an excuse; willful ignorance, or lack of examination of action is unacceptable, and unacknowledged prejudice is still prejudiced. But it's fascinating to me how many people are completely comfortable with and unaware of the complete disconnect of what they think they believe and how they actually act, and I feel like this group is rarely targeted, but taken at face value.

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      Archibald_CunninghamViolet Baudelaire
      9/10/13 2:10pm

      A good example is my very old school parents who like to think they're so open-minded. They're really not.

      Example A:
      When talking about inheritance, I questioned why my eldest brother had so much unilateral power in the estate. On two separate occasions, my mother said these statements. 1)"Your brother is heavily involved in the process, and he has been asking a lot of intelligent questions. He's far more invested in this than you are." 2) "Do you realize what you're asking? I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about because you have to ask all of these questions. You really need to understand this before you go asking questions."

      Example B.
      My brother and I got cleaning ladies around the same time. My mother again made the following statements. 1) "When I was your age, I did all the housework myself. You need to manage your time better. You're wasting your money on something you SHOULD be doing yourself. That's just laziness!" 2) "Well [brother] works very hard. He can't be expected to do everything! I guess that's just what modern families do these days anyway. Sign of the times. Good for him for recognizing he needs help."

      I could get started on my dad, but that would take too long.

      My mom claims to be as feminist as Gloria Steinem though!

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      fortheloveofbeetsViolet Baudelaire
      9/10/13 2:14pm

      YES. And I am always amazed at how many men (they're usually men) have this insane perfect confidence in themselves as rational, deliberate beings. TOTALLY IN CONTROL, always. The idea that their intentions might not translate exactly into the real-world effects their actions have throws them for a loop. And then they're just full of accusations about the people pointing out their sexism as being oversensitive, or even worse, being objectively wrong about the situation because it's not what they intended. It's crazy-making.

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    letslipthedogsofwarErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:52pm

    How to change the system without becoming insanely bureaucratic, though? This question is perplexing to me as I also work in a business that tends to be a little bro-ish or fratty. We're based in the west and frequently people in our industry get together for snowboarding/camping/hiking/backpacking trips. Invariably it's mostly guys, and also invariably, not being in a fucking office gets the creative juices flowing and deals are made and projects are brainstormed and partnerships are cemented. When we get back and put these plans into place, women are often left out of the process or involved later in a supporting role because they missed out on the inception because some people like to recreate differently. I recognize the problem but don't see a great solution.

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      imaginaryfriendletslipthedogsofwar
      9/10/13 1:59pm

      I think Norway has mandated that boards of directors of companies based in their country be 50% female, so it can be done if the will is there.

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      yvanehtniojletslipthedogsofwar
      9/10/13 2:02pm

      If the way that you "invariably" do things systematically excludes women, maybe try varying the way you do things.

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    Archibald_CunninghamErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:48pm

    I read about a study somewhere (End of Men maybe?) that addressed "meritocracy" and proved why it was a crock.

    Study participants got male and female resumes to match up with job descriptions. If a male resume didn't have an education, participants said that it wasn't relevant to the job. If a male had a lot of education, participants said that it was vital to the job. Can you imagine how the judging went with the female resumes?

    OH GEE TAKE A WILD GUESS.

    Hence "meritocracy" is a joke and a wonderful vehicle for disguising racism and sexism. I love the responses from people who say this discrimination doesn't exist. "The job should go to the best candidate! Nothing else should matter!"

    Sigh.

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      KorbenDallasBathroomAssArchibald_Cunningham
      9/10/13 2:18pm

      If you haven't already, or if anyone finds points like this interesting, Chris Hayes' Twilight of The Elites visits similar arguments about the problems with meritocracy.

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      LynxArchibald_Cunningham
      9/11/13 8:51am

      "If a male resume didn't have an education, participants said that it wasn't relevant to the job. If a male had a lot of education, participants said that it was vital to the job."

      That is horrifying.

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    yvanehtniojErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:53pm

    It's bad for fucking everyone.

    Except for the young white guys with nice ties who remind them of their younger selves, so continue it shall.

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      fortheloveofbeetsyvanehtnioj
      9/10/13 2:05pm

      Unless you count the corruption of one's humanity as a result of feeding and profiting off of existing systems of oppression!

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      Violet Baudelairefortheloveofbeets
      9/10/13 2:24pm

      Did you not hear they are able to buy BOATS? Corruption, humanity, pssh. Boat Money!

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    Ari Schwartz: Dark Lord of the SnarkErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:56pm

    Firstly, banking is the worst industry in America, and I really love seeing stories that expose it for that. Erin, you have nothing but my sympathy for having worked in that cesspool of an industry.

    Edit: Anti-semitic comment now gone. So there's that.

    Anyway, the industry is awful, but nothing will change as long as our Congress remains completely lame about regulating it. And since the bills are paid by the same industry... yeah. Shitty shitty shitty situation.

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      oldscrumbyAri Schwartz: Dark Lord of the Snark
      9/10/13 2:05pm

      Booo! I was going to use my ever-grey powers to tell them they're just hating because their Illuminate connections weren't enough to land them Jay-Z tickets.

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    Laura Ingalls Gone WilderErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:55pm
    GIF

    I don't know about all you ladiezzz, but I'm going to keep working on my leanin' in.

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      euterpe35Laura Ingalls Gone Wilder
      9/10/13 2:03pm

      Bring the bunny with you, not even corporate-bro-dudes can resist bunnies.

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    LynxErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 2:14pm

    This is why I feel Cheryl Sandberg's Lean In is ultimately worthless—-they don't give a shit about results, they just care about golfing buddies.

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      pleep ploopLynx
      9/10/13 10:16pm

      As a minority woman working in a male dominated field, are you telling me I should throw my hands up with in the air cause the cards are stacked against me?

      I'm glad there are women pushing for equality from the outside, but I still need to "Lean In" to get promotions and drive equality from the inside.

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      Lynxpleep ploop
      9/11/13 8:49am

      I'm all for trying and continuing to try, but we need to stop blaming women for sexism. Tiara syndrome isn't the problem, fucking giving dudes more money without them even asking is the problem.

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    monstachruckErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 2:12pm

    Does anyone actually go into banking to do something meaningful for society/humanity as a whole? This seems like industries like banking are built around philosophies that would encourage a hierarchy that keep women at the bottom- it's all about the money right? And we all know what comes next:




    I honestly don't know a lot about banking outside of what tellers have to deal with, but to climb that ladder, it seems like you'd have to be the kind of person that's extremely upwardly mobile, puts great value on material gain, and wants to secure power. If men are already at the top, it seems like a no-brainer that women would have a hard time getting involved.

    I'd love to see that change in my lifetime- hopefully enough old rich coots will die off for their legacies to disappear with them :/

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      SaharaWMWmonstachruck
      9/10/13 2:56pm

      Depends on what you mean by "banking", the financial services industry is very broad. I think IMissTheOldInternet has a great description of the traditional need for banks. Now a lot of jobs in the financial services industry are middle or back office (operations, i.e., turn paper A into paper B) and those pay well in comparison to the minimum wage, but it's no bottles of champagne.

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    ChiefmoBagginsErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 3:07pm

    Big Consulting here:

    Women are hired in equivalent numbers to men, they are always attractive, whereas the men are just mostly attractive. They get put on projects and advance until sub-partner level. By that time most have quit, or left to have children, and there is no door back once you leave. This means that 90% of my partners are men, and the 10% are hard nosed win at all costs women who have managed to browbeat, kill or outshine the rest of the candidates.

    It's shocking how hard edged those women have to be just to survive the bro-fest. I think it's probably a self-selecting population, the ones that don't get tired of the sexist bullshit and misogyny, and are motivated by money at all costs are the only ones who survive. They are just as evil as the male partners, and sometimes are even rougher to deal with given that they are conditioned to "be one of the bros".

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      hocoutureChiefmoBaggins
      9/11/13 1:38am

      Gah! So many questions for you. I'm thinking of going into Big Consulting, mostly for the money and because it will hopefully open doors (I have people I need to take care of financially), for like 2 years and then doing something else. It seems so, so tool-y. I bought a consulting case study book, and I come from a non-mathematical/non-economics background, but from an elite university, which I've heard they like, because appearances. Is it worth it? Tips? Will I hate it? I know I will, but can I tolerate it? From what I've read so far (and what you confirm), it is eminently clear to me that the industry is heavily biased towards appearance over substance.

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      ChiefmoBagginshocouture
      9/11/13 10:28am

      My only advice is don't do it unless you are really sure. I'm never home, I stay in hotel rooms easily 250 days a year, I don't have a personal life. So if you are willing to sacrifice those things, then you can make a lot of money. Be warned if you get stuck in some crap division with no upside your career may not progress like the big time divisions, and be prepared to be shit on 24/7. I get shit from my clients and shit from my managers. Be prepared to be on the clock all the time, you are accountable to your client and besides rare exception can be working 75+ hours a week all the time.

      I'll give you a glimpse of my schedule.

      1. Fly out at the asscrack of dawn on Monday morning to your client.

      2. Work like a salt mine slave in Ancient Egypt every day.

      3. Work out till your your head stops buzzing with work thoughts.

      4. Sleep like a rock in a hotel room.

      5. Wake up and do it for the next 4 days.

      6. Fly out of wherever you are back home Thursday night, though many times just stay there and work through the weekend.

      7. Drink with your friends on the weekend, hard. You do this to blackout from how terrible the week was. I stopped that, and switched to smoking copious amounts of the kush.

      8. Rinse, and repeat until you get a promotion and then buy cool shit to fill the empty void in your life left open from no meaningful interpersonal relationships.

      If all that sounds appealing to you, then Consulting is for you. Other prerequisites:

      Don't be fat or ugly, I barely got hired when I was heavier and have seen my career advance quickly now that I am in shape. If you are unnattractive, most likely you will eventually be shunted into a back office analyst position with no face time and no commission on the projects.

      Be white or Asian, with the rare non-Asian POC being the exception.

      Be from a top school, preferably in a quant field. If you are a non-quant you will probably be stuck in a "face" consulting role, it's more about your demeanor and soft skills and then delivering the company line. If you are a quant and have soft skills, the sky is the limit. They lust after smart bros and broettes over all others, but be sure to be a bro, the nerds get stuck in the back room.

      Don't be from a poor upbringing. Everyone can only talk about all their cool shit and how rich their parents are. If you didn't have those experiences growing up, you will be excluded and your networking will fail and your career will stall. I come from solidly upper-middle class roots(working professional parents with graduate degrees), most of these kids came from even more privileged upbringings on the order of exclusive prep schools and yachts and "summering" in the Hamptons.

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    BaconVonMapleBarErin Gloria Ryan
    9/10/13 1:51pm

    Well done.
    It's a sad state when these guys would rather pay billions than surrender their boys club/no girls-minorities policy.
    Why? Erin said it well: the majority of their clients are old, conservative white males and golfing/strip clubs/coke with Ms. Chang of Harvard business school summa cum laude isn't going to form the same relationship as dude-bro Kappa Sig douchebag from OU whose dad is a lawyer and has a scratch handicap.
    And business is supposed to be "efficient"

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