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    Freddie DeBoerMaggie Lange
    9/08/13 12:08pm

    Most everyone believes that Kosovo was a successful humanitarian intervention. But after the intervention, winners started slaughtering losers, most certainly including citizens who never participated in any of the atrocities. And that's the essential lie of humanitarian intervention, that it prevents killing. It just decides who wins and who loses and who gets to do the killing afterwards.

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      JohnMcClanesSmirkFreddie DeBoer
      9/08/13 12:26pm

      Funny you mention that. I just got done reading Chris Hedges' War is the Force that Gives Us Meaning, which is one of the great anti-war books of our age, and he literally only defends one war: the bombing of Kosovo.

      Not that I disagree with your point (he, himself, acknowledges it) but anytime someone out flanks Hedges from the anti-war left I just want to tip my hat. Game respects game.

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      bbberlinJohnMcClanesSmirk
      9/08/13 12:43pm

      That book is fantastic. His descriptions of Kosovo were terrifying: streets literally filled with blood and organs. If memory serves it was his worst experience of war?

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    JohnMcClanesSmirkMaggie Lange
    9/08/13 12:17pm

    While it's clear a lot of the rebel fighters are religious extremists, I'm dubious, as a rule, of any accusation dependent on the word "linked" for its entire existence.

    Most stories that are "Group X has been 'linked' to Group Y" are one "Coincidence? You decide!" away from Loose Change-esque sophistry.

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      RoboBadgerJohnMcClanesSmirk
      9/08/13 12:45pm

      I'm also dubious too that the chemical weapons attack are linked to Assad. From a new German report, it's clear he did not approve the attack. Unfortunately uncertainly doesn't enter into Obama's thinking.

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      elaine layaboutJohnMcClanesSmirk
      9/08/13 1:05pm

      al-nusra has openly declared allegiance to al-qaeda big cheese ayman zawahri, and zawahri himself has called al-nusra "an independent branch of al-qaeda" ... so they are linked ... if not in lock-step

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    PennoyerVNeffMaggie Lange
    9/08/13 12:01pm

    I kinda said something like before. Why does the US act like the neighbor you had in college that would always call the cops before actually talking to you? We arent the world's police force. Just stop and focus on our own broke ass country.

    /

    Halliburton execs still do the Doogie, Macarena, Boot skoot and boogy

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      phunkshunPennoyerVNeff
      9/08/13 12:48pm

      There's a sort of symbolism in play here though...not that I like the implications either way. If we don't do anything in the face of someone breaking the conventions that the Western world has peddled as righteous behavior by all sane and civilized countries, we're basically ceding the notion that we can actually project power effectively.

      The Onion summed it up nicely with the Assad 'your move' spoof in that we can't actually project this power well due to systemic problems at home... Problem is, when we officially give up the position..it's gone and America's position in the world changes. Maybe only subtly at first, but it definitely changes.

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      PennoyerVNeffphunkshun
      9/08/13 1:01pm

      Interesting statement. And I agree with some of your thoughts that I hadnt considered before. I guess my stance has to be if Syria gasses itself to death it must be better than a huge multi-lateral war with armies that have nukes. The only conclusion I can come to is that US isnt the shit anymore, and should probably fix problems within the US.

      /

      great post phunkshun

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    Straight out of PangaeaMaggie Lange
    9/08/13 3:18pm

    Like the Iraq Invasion helped the 100,000 Christians that once lived in Iraq?

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      Raphael Jarvis SloanMaggie Lange
      9/08/13 12:52pm

      This entire situation is a no win for the president and american interests in the middle east. If you do nothing, you look impotent to Russia, China, and Iran. A limited strike does nothing to topple Assad and could possibly result in a ratcheting up of aggression in the region. I am glad I don't have to make these calls, makes my problems seem trivial in comparison.

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        gogol23Raphael Jarvis Sloan
        9/08/13 5:22pm

        agreed. its nice to see a sober view on the subject on this website...

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      Steve_Buscemi's_OrthodontistMaggie Lange
      9/08/13 1:53pm

      In the 80's, we funded the proto Al Qaeda rebels.

      In 2000's, they became our enemy.

      In 2013, they become our ally.

      In 2025, they're probably going to fuck your wife.

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        psychomagnetMaggie Lange
        9/08/13 12:02pm

        I'm shocked that religious extremism has any part in this. I need to take a breath and let this mentally digest.

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          elaine layaboutMaggie Lange
          9/08/13 12:51pm

          bandar bush's boys seem to be mucking up his machinations ... unless, of course, youtube is suddenly flooded with vidis of bearded men helping nuns to safety through the rubble

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            SweetBrahMaggie Lange
            9/08/13 12:38pm

            Man when I heard about someone murdering Christians in Syria I was all "Oh no please don't be Muslims, please don't be Muslims." But damn, it was Muslims.

            White people, smdh.

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              epicfuriousMaggie Lange
              9/08/13 12:08pm

              Oppressing Chrisians: at last, something both al-Nusrah and AQI/ISIL can agree on!

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