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    illinirangerHamilton Nolan
    8/13/13 4:19pm

    I served for 8 years on Active Duty in the Army. Thanks to the VA I am getting a graduate degree for free (they haven't been delinquent on any payments) and was able to buy a house with no money down thanks to the VA loan. Obviously the VA experience differs for everybody but my experiences have been positive.

    I take issue with the tone of the author in the attached reading. His issues weren't really with the VA - they were with his chain of command while on Active Duty. Those are two very different things. While his stories may be true, if his depression went untreated it is on his CoC for not getting him help. Sure, the VA may be well and verily fucked up, but this guy's (or gal's) problem was with the unit.

    While I sympathize with anyone that has a service related injury, it is conventional wisdom that the worst thing you can do is be discharged without having all your issues addressed. There are multiple, and i mean multiple, Medical Retention Boards were you have many, many opportunities to address these issues before you are chaptered out of the service. Just like in any healthcare situation you are your best advocate.

    Lastly, I doubt the veracity of this article. One reason is the above - this guy sat in San Diego, only had to report for morning formation, and never saw anyone? For 10 months? Having put Soldiers through review boards I just cannot believe that. I've known and led guys that had to go to Walter Reed, FT Sam, Landstuhl, the local clinic, i mean everywhere, and nobody went 10 months without being seen or treated by a medical professional. You can't deploy and come back without seeing them. Every time you deploy or come back you get to see a physician or PA who literally asks you if you are depressed. and this is done in private, behind closed doors. So I am sure the author had a chance to tell someone that is not in the chain of command and required by law and regulation to report. In 8 years I probably got asked if i was depressed by a professional behind closed doors face to face a dozen times. And if you marked on your survey that you drank "more than 3-4 drinks a week" you were explicitly asked by that professional, in detail, about your alcohol usage. it got to the point where i started lying on the tests and saying "never" to alcohol use because i got tired of explaining i would drink 2-3 beers a day. And yet this person never had a chance to speak with one of these people? Never had a chance to refer himself to a substance abuse program? I just cannot believe that.

    My entire career i always passed my fitness test but was deemed "overweight" and had to be taped according to DoD policy. Often times I was at least 20 lbs over the weight limit, but I did not get booted because my body fat was within the tolerance. If you pass your test and are 7 pounds overweight you get measured for body fat. So its not like "oh man, i can't believe they kicked me out because i was only 7 lbs over?! Even though i totally passed the test!!!" you get kicked out because your body fat is not within tolerance - and for a male it can be up to 24%! That's a pretty forgiving standard. So the author may have been chaptered for weight (and that's an honorable discharge by the way as it should be) but he is not telling the whole story.

    Also, I never heard of a situation where a soldier showed up to formation drunk, said "I want to kill myself." and was ignored - several times. And these issues spanned several units. While it's entirely possible that at one unit he would have an extremely difficult time with his chain of command it strains credulity that this would happen on 3 consecutive assignments.

    Additionally, from the authors own words, he almost never left his compound. Then why was he so fearful of IEDs in the trash everywhere? It sounds like some crap he heard from somebody else. Also, I served in the Ranger Regiment. With Navy SEALS - we worked together when forward as a Joint team. There is absolutely no reason that the Ranger or SEALS would have brought a Naval Intelligence straphanger with virtually no combat skills on a night raid. It just doesn't happen. You can barely fit enough of the boys on the aircraft or in the vehicles in the first place. Unless the guy was like a 3/3 Arabic speaker or some crazy shit like that there's no way they are taking him outside the wire. And if he was some specially skilled individual they never would have left him off the mission. People are either on nearly every mission because they are mission critical, or they never leave the base because they are NOT mission critical.

    The DoD is far from perfect. So are Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines. The only thing that people are going to confirm from these stories are their own biases.

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      illinirangerilliniranger
      8/13/13 4:46pm

      You know, as I go back and think about what I wrote, I really am not down on this guy(gal) if they have a real issue. I hope they get help, I really do. And I'm sure the VA hasn't been a great experience for this individual.

      But what I really think is that veterans have to stop playing the victim card. I am in control of my life. I am in control of what I do when I wake up in the morning. Not someone or something else. I have agency.

      Vets need help, no doubt about it. I had good experiences with the VA - some very close people to me haven't. I am just tired of hearing other vets play victim all god damn day. I chose to serve. You chose to serve. And that's what it is - it's service. If you don't approach it with a service ethic it is going to eat you alive. It's really not a job - it's a calling. I miss it every day.

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      BostonTerrorilliniranger
      8/13/13 5:04pm

      It is however still a CONTRACT between you and the US government - with the understanding that your health needs (as a result of service) will be addressed in a timely manner. What makes this situation especially infuriating is the chickenhawk politicians who beat the war drums and slather "Support Our Troops" all over their vehicles and throughout their speeches are the same ones who are actively acting against veteran's interests.

      It is a contract that the government takes quite seriously - since imprisonment is the most likely consequence of going AWOL.

      I dont blame the military mind you (though they have plenty of issues), but the Pentagon and Washington has some really messed up priorities. Veterans benefits are a pittance compared to what we constantly dole out to contractors - often for work or supplies that we dont need.

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    raincoasterHamilton Nolan
    8/13/13 5:41pm

    This is going to be so, so good.

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      Butraincoaster
      8/13/13 7:45pm

      It would help me, though, if he separated psych and other medical issues in examining this topic, since the mental stuff carries a whole series of complicating factors that can make it very tricky for civilians too.

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      raincoasterBut
      8/13/13 7:55pm

      But he's looking at service provision, which is a fair question whether the issue is physical illness or mental illness. The VA claims to be set up to handle both.

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    HappyFunDadHamilton Nolan
    8/14/13 10:14am

    Its so dependent on where you are getting care. I am originally from Baltimore City. Holy shit that VA center is understaffed, overcrowded, and down right scary.

    I got issues from a head injury that requires medication. I was constantly fighting with them over getting the medication I needed and in the proper form (basically I needed injectors and they would only provide pills or suppositories, which given the condition I am in, is fucking cruel).

    Fast forward to moving out to Roanoke VA. On a lark, I check out the VA hospital in Salem, just to see about setting up an appointment in the future.

    Within 40 minutes, I was seeing a neurologist, a shrink, and given a slew of contact information to get my brother into rehab (I shit you not, the admin people pretty much explained how to fudge the paperwork to get him a bed, though sadly he refused to take the opportunity). They got me the meds I needed.

    Virginia is actually trying to set the homeless rate for Vets in the state at 0%. I don't think they will ever be able to do it, but damn I got to give them credit for trying. Compare that shit to Walter Reed...the best VA hospital in MD.

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      RealAmurricanHamilton Nolan
      8/13/13 3:44pm

      Great idea for a series, Hamno. For all our jingoistic fervor, "Support Our Troops" is used more to bludgeon anyone who questions our actions abroad than to ever walk the walk and provide the money and real support that they've earned. Bring on the appallingly discouraging stories...

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        Snacktastic Part II: the Snack AwakensRealAmurrican
        8/13/13 4:15pm

        Did you ever read New York Magazine's article about the returning veterans a few years ago? Well worth reading, compelling and very sad.

        Spend five minutes in Booth’s company, and it’s hard not to be moved by the redrawn contours of his life. He’s in pain and can’t sleep (“You don’t realize how much you lift your head when you sleep”); he hasn’t set foot in a grocery store in well over three years and has gone to the movies just once, at eleven in the morning, when the theater was practically empty. But it’s also hard not to marvel at his resilience. He’s laconic and uncomplaining; he’s still golfing (he likes the peaceful sensation of the green, likes that it’s a physical activity he can still do); he is comfortable talking about his struggles. When confronted with the reality that he could no longer be a surgeon’s assistant—his right hand won’t permit it—Booth took several interview and résumé-writing courses and found a job across the country, at a security company, where he took charge of its human-resources department, overseeing hundreds of employees. If the Army’s Medical Review Board no longer found him fit for duty, he wasn’t going to protest. “You can’t spend the rest of your life in the Army, just trying to heal,” he says. “You’re going to spend the rest of your life healing one way or the other anyway.”

        http://nymag.com/news/features/…

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        DirkaDirkaRealAmurrican
        8/13/13 4:37pm

        Jingoism is a word that the better half of all Americans need to become acquainted with.

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      Ginmar RienneHamilton Nolan
      8/13/13 4:36pm

      Jesus Christ. I'm a woman and a combat vet and I get it from everybody. "Women aren't in combat, you're lying." "Women can't do the job." (Well, then, how's about YOU sign up, asswipe? )

      Is anybody else seeing weird formatting?

       You're not supposed to NEED care if you're a woman, and you're not allowed to fuck up no matter how fucking bad your condition is. Having hallucinations?  Hearing threatening voices?  Flashbacks?  Better watch your ass or you'll get called out for exploding in frustration and despair.  The worst ones for that can be other women: I've had conservative women bash me for not relishing the war they adored and gotten called----direct quote----an "imperialistic baby killer" (and merc, by one of Hugo Schwyzer's more rabid defenders) by liberal  kids who are not only a decade younger than my favorite shoes but can't imagine having to join the military to get ahead.

      Where do I start? The fact that I got treated with extra skepticism because I was a woman? The fact that they put me in a therapy group for rapists and wife beaters? (The next group was housewives, and my shrink told me to "be tactful.") The way they blamed my nightmares on horror movies instead of seeing people die? The half a dozen times they either cut off my meds or refused to change them, even though at that point I was trying to kill myself? I kept cutting my arms open to keep from just killing myself outright, thanks to guilt.

      For me, the thing that will linger is the utter disdain and indifference of VA staffers who treated me as an inconvenient obstacle. It took a suicide attempt and a stay in a civilian hospital to realize that doctors should and can de nice to vulnerable patients.

      The doctor who treated the physical injuries I had put everything down to arthritis. (I was in the gun turret when my brand new driver flinched at an IED, over-corrected, and nearly sent me flying.) Buddy of mine was at her FOB when it got hit by a mortar and shredded her arm to the shoulder. Diagnosis? Arthritis. I know of another seven or eight women who went through the same thing.

      I lost a decade fighting for treatment then fighting to get them to actually keep their promises. Three senators, two Congress critters, two governors, an attorney general, two different lawyers——and I now have nerve damage in my hands, migraines, and the occasional seizure. All that time and life wasted over these years. And it'd go on too long if I really detailed it all.

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        BoSephusGinmar Rienne
        8/13/13 4:52pm

        I am so sorry to hear that people didn't believe you were in combat. Such utter bullshit. Almost all of the convoy security teams that where over there with me were MP units and I saw many a female saw gunner sticking out of the top of a HMMWV. Heck, I was that gunner a couple of times in our own convoy, but it was in a relatively safe area and I never had to fire my weapon. Best of luck, I hope that things continue to get better for you from here on out.

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        Ginmar RienneBoSephus
        8/13/13 5:00pm

        Thanks. We had only been there a month and had just gotten armored hummers and CINCGARS in them TWO days before the battle. Rolled out, got ambushed, and for the next day and night and morning we fought and fell back and slowly realized that it was likely we weren't going to live much longer. There were about forty of them to every one of us. One of the civvies had his camera going because he figured somebody would find it once we were dead. I gave it to the VA. They said——and I quote——-"Did you have a traumatic childhood?"

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      ArdenHamilton Nolan
      8/13/13 4:27pm

      I really hope these stories ruffle some feathers.

      If Walmart flipped it's shit over a couple of comments on Gawker, I would like to see these Vet's stories start to cause problems for our elected officials and their offices.

      Probably too much to hope for since, given what I'm expecting to hear (and based on the comments in the older thread) they don't care to begin with, but one can wish.

      Keep up the good work, Nolan. :)

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        kevin_kancerHamilton Nolan
        8/13/13 4:38pm

        Not trying to defend the military, I did five years including multiple deployments to Iraq and hated every minute of it, but when I got out I found the VA to be really accommodating. Maybe it's just because the military itself was so unbelievably shitty that anything seems good in comparison.

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          Ginmar Riennekevin_kancer
          8/13/13 7:46pm

          I think VAs can differ wildly in terms of standards.

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          GsemployeeGinmar Rienne
          8/13/13 10:20pm

          What standards?

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        burdickjpHamilton Nolan
        8/14/13 12:14am

        I have had VERY good care from the VA. Much better than I have had, or my wife has had, from the civilian medical industry.

        Only once have I come out of an appointment unhappy. An office worker asked how my appointment went. I said I wasn't terribly happy with it. She turned me right around and into another appointment with another provider, who has since been the best person I've worked with at the VA.

        Yes, I see vets in the halls who seem unhappy. Every one of them I've seen has walked in with a predisposition. They take their frustrations out on the people trying best to help them, people who have a seemingly infinite amount of patience.

        My best advice for anyone going to the VA: smile. Joke. Be respectful and polite. Make sure they remember you for good reasons. Even if you are in excruciating pain, there are ways to communicate that without being a jerk about it.

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          TimDopperburdickjp
          8/22/15 2:38pm

          I call BS. This is a shill, or a grossly inexperienced person with the VA. I used to think the VA was decent, because it was affordable, appointments were made in a timely manner, and it was free. Unfortunately, all of that is only good so long as the only treatment you need is Ibuprofen. If you have anything more advanced than that, you’re SOL. The crap they pull in the disability department is the same crap they pull in the hospitals - delay, deny, hope I die.

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          burdickjpTimDopper
          8/23/15 10:01am

          Not BS. But there has definitely been more to the story since then. I have interacted with two other VA hospitals since then and can honestly say I scored something lucky for the first years of my VA treatment. Larger hospitals are very difficult, but again anyone who’s job it is to provide care was very good to work with. My advice is to find a smaller hospital or a smaller clinic and request care there.

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        Laura K.Hamilton Nolan
        8/18/13 12:05pm

        My father was a Vietnam veteran. He served in the navy on the U.S.S. Henley. I don't remember a time when my dad didn't have a violent cough, though he waited until the early 90's to have it checked. He had no faith in doctors, especially VA doctors, going back to the late 60's. Through his military status, my parents could have gone to the VA when I was born, but my father refused due to the high infant mortality rate on base. Similarly, he made sure he had insurance through his post-military employers for as long as it was an option, though I have no memory of him ever using it for his own health.

        He began going to the VA in the early 90's, and they diagnosed him with emphysema, and began treatment. He also developed stomach ulcers, which were left untreated. He went regularly for bloodwork and assorted check-ups, yet it took a private practice doctor to diagnose his diabetes (initial reading was over 500). He continued to have his diabetes treated through the family doctor, as he was not given treatment options through the VA, though the VA treated him for emphysema throughout this time.

        During the summer of 2004, my dad began having issues with internal bleeding leading to passing blood through bodily waste as well as coughing up and vomiting blood. He also had blood clots forming in his legs. At roughly the same time the VA informed him that he did not have emphysema, rather complications stemming from his time in the engine rooms on the Henley. There were asbestos threads throughout his lungs. Dad refused to allow the family to pursue benefits he could have qualified for by joining in on the class action lawsuit that was going on at the time. He voiced concern (that I translated as bordering on fear) as to possible fallout from being a part of the suit. After many months of going in because of general weakness and pain as well as passing blood, he told the VA that he wanted them to keep him until they could figure out what was going on with his body and help him.

        Dad died on 29 November 2004. He had been put on IV blood thinners. His breakfast had been delivered and he had gotten out of his bed to go to the restroom and wash his hands. He never made it. He tripped and fell and bled to death on the floor. This would have been around 7AM. Allegedly, they found him when they came to deliver his lunch, which implies no one had even checked on him in hours. His room was directly across from the nurses' station. His door had been open; he fell, slightly closing the door, blocking it from being easily opened. When we were called and notified, the VA informed us they had attempted resuscitation without success. At that time, I had been an active member of a rescue squad for almost a decade. There were no signs of resuscitation, and furthermore the hospital has a standing policy of not attempting conversion on unwitnessed codes. I understand their policy (to a degree), but resent the lie. I demanded an autopsy, with the idea being for the state medical examiner to conduct the inquiry. My mother, however, signed papers for the VA to do the procedure. I considered this a conflict of interest, but out of respect for my mother I did not fight her on her decision. The results we were given indicated that my father died from advanced liver cancer, a condition that had NEVER been diagnosed, despite months of blood work, x-rays, ultrasounds, etc. I didn't believe the report then, and I never will.

        My dad had a flag over his casket, as he had requested throughout his life. My mother and I refused all military participation in the funeral; the funeral director presented my mother with the flag. We waited years until we could afford a civilian tombstone, as neither of us could stomach the thought of a USN marker on his grave.

        Our military personnel (active, retired, veteran, discharged) deserve better than this. They are not pawns or lab rats or disposable or expendable. They are human beings who served their country and earned their benefits. They deserve to be compassionately treated for illnesses and disabilities, many (or most) of which would not be a part of their lives had they not sacrificed themselves to the military. PTSD is just as crippling as paraplegia, just not usually as quantifiable or visible. It is also not necessarily as quickly recognized. Just because and individual is diagnosed with one condition does not mean that he or she does not have additional conditions that need treatment as well. Regardless of diagnosis, these men and women deserve the best of care, appropriate and thorough testing, accurate results, and adequate and correct treatment.

        I wish my father's story was unique, but I suspect it is not.

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          shuvoolHamilton Nolan
          8/14/13 3:12pm

          Going along with the posting, and not the attached story (since the story is, as has been mentioned, more about the poor chain of command and poor medical care that the sailor experienced while on active duty, and not a VA issue) I'll share my own VA experience. It isn't a horror story- I haven't had any surgery accidents, but it is an example of one of the bigger problems with the VA today.

          I don't want to put up a wall of text, so I'll try to summarize. Left the service in 2010, was seen for the first time by a VA doctor for evaluation in October 2011, was given confirmation of incorrect information in March 2012, submitted corrections and received confirmation that they received my submitted corrections in September 2012. Was given an estimated date of that info being processed by June 2013. Today, checking online it still says that the estimated date of that info being processed is June 2013. To date, have not received any medicine for treatment of service connected medical problems (that were rated by the VA) from the VA. I understand they are underfunded and backlogged beyond belief, but this is pretty ridiculous.

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